Can't decide between Horizon LCR, or Sierra 2s LR with Horizon C

[yesplease]

That's an impressive system! I'd be interested in hearing more about your Dirac setup. That is through the Arcam, right? I was initially confused because of the external amps which lead me to think you had a MiniDSP DDRC-88A in there somewhere. Was the setup process similar to Audyssey? Does the Arcam allow you to modify the house curve?

Todd

Yes, it's the full version of Dirac Live that comes with the Arcam so you can do anything like modify any target curves, group speakers together to be eq'ed the same, and adjust curtains (frequency range to start/stop eq) for each speaker . You really can "have it your way" whether you like your frequency response to look like a mountain range, or flat as a ruler.

The process is very different then Audyssey. The software is run on a Mac or PC. The microphone plugs into your computer and it connects to the AVR through your network. Then, the calculations are made with a combination of your computer and Dirac's servers. You should use the Umik-1 to take the measurements as it's Dirac's recommended mic. If you're crazy like me, you would get one from Cross Spectrum Labs that's been calibrated down to 5hz vs 20hz for the standard one. Compare that to the toy mic that Audessey uses and their dependence on the little processing power of the AVR to create the filters.

I went with the Arcam because it's the only reasonably priced AV receiver with both Dirac and Atmos. I also like their approach of just focusing on audio quality above anything else, instead of adding 100 features that no one really uses. It has a massive and very heavy toroidal transformer and 2 big 15,000uf capacitors (in addition to a bunch of smaller capacitors).

They also list all 7 channels driven (with extremely low distortion) as a spec, which is virtually unheard of for an AVR. They don't put any filters in the signal path like Denon, Yamaha and the rest of them. So you'll get the little speaker pops when the audio signal is first received. No big deal for me.

The two units have only been out for a few months and there have been some bugs. I'm not concerned at all because the warranty is 5 years. They're also working on a firmware update to add Dirac to the height channels. Right now it only sets the delays and levels for them. I've also been told that they're working to add a second slot for Dirac in the receiver. This allows you to load and then switch between 2 completely different calibrations at any time.

Even though the Arcam is probably more then enough, I power the fronts with a external amp for a number of reasons: 1. Because I'm a huge fan of overkill and never want my equipment to get close to its limits 2. I'll keep it hopefully for 10-20 years 3. I want a lot of headroom because I listen fairly loud and it may also be needed when Dirac is boosting a large dip (5-10db).

I went with an Anthem amp after comparing and researching options for a long time. I liked that it has really good specs along with terrific performance, is made in Canada, uses high quality components and capacitors, is an excellent design, has extremely good build quality, it also looks nice both inside and out imho, and it has been certified for safety and performance by an independent laboratory, unlike Emotiva and some other manufacturers that have zero safety/performance certifications. I know most people probably don't care about UL or equivalent listings, but I do, especially on products in my home that get hot and can pull 1500 watts. $10 electrical products are UL listed, there's simply no excuse for not getting the certification.

[monkuboy]

A +1 for Dirac. I paid an extra $99 for the full version to use with my XMC-1 and it works very, very well. My only other experience with room correction has been Audyssey, in a couple of Onkyo AVR's from several years ago and never again will I ever use that. It made everything sound worse. I feel sorry for anyone who uses it and lets it mess up their system then they sit there and keep it because they think that's how the system is supposed to sound. Dirac is a far superior method, at least based on my experiences.

[yesplease]

A +1 for Dirac. I paid an extra $99 for the full version to use with my XMC-1 and it works very, very well. My only other experience with room correction has been Audyssey, in a couple of Onkyo AVR's from several years ago and never again will I ever use that. It made everything sound worse. I feel sorry for anyone who uses it and lets it mess up their system then they sit there and keep it because they think that's how the system is supposed to sound. Dirac is a far superior method, at least based on my experiences.

I'm actually pissed off at myself for sticking with Audyssey for as long as I did. I started reading about Dirac at least a couple years ago and I always thought to myself that it was all hype.

[curtis]

I'm using Trinnov now, but will go with Dirac when the time comes for a new pre/pro.

I'd like to stay with Trinnov, but it will be too expensive.

[sludgeogre]

I'm using Trinnov now, but will go with Dirac when the time comes for a new pre/pro.

I'd like to stay with Trinnov, but it will be too expensive.

Never heard of Trinnov before, then I looked them up, looked fascinating, googled some prices and HOLY MOTHER OF **** those things better sound incredible.

[curtis]

Never heard of Trinnov before, then I looked them up, looked fascinating, googled some prices and HOLY MOTHER OF **** those things better sound incredible.

Yeah...tell me about it!
I bought a Sherwood/Newcastle's R972 AVR with Trinnov...it was S/N and Trinnov's attempt to bring the Trinnov correction system into the mainstream. It started out very buggy, but overtime they ironed out most of the issues. By that time, Audessey had taken hold, and integrating Trinnov into a receiver proved costly, and they abandoned the effort. It was a $2K receiver when it debuted...I think in 2008-2009...but in the end, they started liquidating them...I got mine for $600, and refurb unit got all the way down to $300.

Not only does Trinnov do room EQ, which it does wonderfully, it also corrects for speaker placement in 2D/3D according to ITU standards...standards on how speakers should be placed in a recording studio.

Even though my speaker placement in my room is pretty good, the sound is even more enveloping with Trinnov. For EQuing, I have it setup to EQ the sound from 300hz down...it is wonderful!

Now, you can't get Trinnov for under $20K...so when I decide to go to 4K or Atmos...or any new codec...or when this thing breaks down...I'm hosed.

I don't have any direct comparison with Dirac...but I am told it is the next best thing, but it won't do the placement correction.

[yesplease]

Never heard of Trinnov before, then I looked them up, looked fascinating, googled some prices and HOLY MOTHER OF **** those things better sound incredible.

Yes, they are absolutely worth it for the theater rooms that use them. The number one thing is the speaker mapping and every single aspect of the system is customizable.

Dirac is definitely the next best thing and Datasat, which has similar pricing to Trinnov, uses Dirac. I think Trinnov would definitely be a waste in a room like mine.

[curtis]

Dirac is definitely the next best thing and Datasat, which has similar pricing to Trinnov, uses Dirac. I think Trinnov would definitely be a waste in a room like mine.

I have heard Trinnov in a few different rooms...if you have the funds, I don't think it is a waste of money.

[yesplease]

I have heard Trinnov in a few different rooms...if you have the funds, I don't think it is a waste of money.

I'm not saying it wouldn't sound terrific, I'm saying spending $25k+ to put a 32 channel processor in a 1000 cubic foot room would, imho, not be a wise use of resources. Just like trying to put a 350 small block on a bicycle.

One of the main reasons to get the unit is the speaker remapping and huge number of channels. All of the speakers in my room are properly placed, so I really wouldn't need the remapping. I could, at the very most, fit 2 more ceiling speakers and 2 front heights, that's it. So I would spend almost 10x as much and get 4 more speakers.

Now if I had a nice big room where I could put 12 tops, 2 wides, 4 heights and 2 rears, and $25k burning a hole in my pocket, I would do it in a heartbeat.

[curtis]

I'm not saying it wouldn't sound terrific, I'm saying spending $25k+ to put a 32 channel processor in a 1000 cubic foot room would, imho, not be a wise use of resources. Just like trying to put a 350 small block on a bicycle.

One of the main reasons to get the unit is the speaker remapping and huge number of channels. All of the speakers in my room are properly placed, so I really wouldn't need the remapping. I could, at the very most, fit 2 more ceiling speakers and 2 front heights, that's it. So I would spend almost 10x as much and get 4 more speakers.

Now if I had a nice big room where I could put 12 tops, 2 wides, 4 heights and 2 rears, and $25k burning a hole in my pocket, I would do it in a heartbeat.

The cost is a HUGE factor...agreed. Absolutely a value judgement. I will not have the funds when I need a new pre/pro...unless I hit the lottery or something.
The systems where I have heard Trinnov is in smaller rooms. The speakers in my room...5.1...with almost ideal placement. It made a noticeable difference in these rooms.