Can't decide between Horizon LCR, or Sierra 2s LR with Horizon C

[yesplease]

Been researching this for months and I still can't come to a decision. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Wife has 86'd towers, so those aren't an option.

Here's the room http://imgur.com/ntuSkps

Denon X4100w, SVS PC-2000 sub in FR corner (may go dual or 1 PB-12 Plus), Axiom QS-8 surrounds.

Option 1: 3 Horizon RAAL, all horizontal. They would all be the same height with the tweeters at ear level. Wall mounted on custom shelves. I can only space them 6" apart and the LR tweeters would be 58" apart.

Option 2: 3 Horizon RAAL, C horizontal, LR vertical with tweeters on the outside. Wall mounted on custom shelves. LR tweeters would be 75" apart.

Option 3: 1 Horizon RAAL, 2 Sierra 2s. Wall mounted on custom shelves. Sierra 2s ports would only be 3-6 inches away from the wall. LR tweeters would be 75" apart.

Plan to crossover the fronts at 60-80hz. I can't move the room around and the layout is pretty much fixed. The Horizons are very attractive to me because of the front ports (so I can mount them flush with the wall) and how they come closer to the tower performance, compared to the 2s.

Use is 100% HT. I think the room is to small for 7.1, so I'm going with 5.1 and the QS8s on the rear wall about 6.5ft high, about 2ft from each corner.

Also, I'm crazy so the TV and main listening position on the middle seat have to be centered in the room.

[Blutarsky]

Sierra-1 speakers with port plugs are another option.

Sometimes SAF and room dictate the choices we need to make.

I am contemplating Axiom QS8 rear surrounds for a new 5.1set up with my Sierra-2 RCLs. They seem to be one of the best possible options.

[curtis]

I am contemplating Axiom QS8 rear surrounds for a new 5.1set up with my Sierra-2 RCLs. They seem to be one of the best possible options.

One thing about the QS8's are they require a fairly high crossover point.

[N Boros]

Yesplease,

Is is possible to move the theater seats closer to the screen? It will make whatever choice of surround speakers perform much better. I had a theater room that was about 12 by 17 feet with 8 foot ceilings. I originally had the TV centered on 17 foot wall and the couch directly opposite with the couch up against the back wall. I even had the QS8s as surrounds on the side walls just a few inches from the back corners. It sounded okay, but after a while I was able to convince my wife to move the TV to the 12 foot wall and not put the couch up against the back wall opposite the TV. We left it more out toward the center of the room. I had probably about 4 feet behind the couch to allow a much better soundfield to develop behind me, from the surround channels. The QS8s as surrounds sounded much better to me in that orientation. This would also open up the possibility of getting direct firing surround speakers like say the HTM 200s, or the CBM 170s, which will better match the sound character of your front speakers. You could get some wall mounts and mount them slightly behind the listening position, but facing each other and they may be okay and not draw attention to themselves, since your room is only about 11 feet across. The QS8s are quite expensive. You get the Sierra 1s on B-stock or if they still have the anniversary sale prices, for about the same price as the QS8s. An added side benefit for moving your seats closer is that you can save money on your display. You can get a smaller TV if you go that route or can save money on your projector screen if you want a projector and still have the same viewing angle.


To answer your original question, I think the three Sierra 2s across the front should be more than fine, since your room is on the smaller side. It also sounds like you can space them out better to get better separation. Positioning the bookshelf speakers better will likely yield better results comparing to non-optimally spaced tower (horizon) speakers.

I guess all of my suggestions will likely save you money! This means you have more money left over for a good display. So you have no excuses not getting something with the best contrast ratio possible.

[yesplease]

One thing about the QS8's are they require a fairly high crossover point.

Yea, that's definitely one of my concerns with them. They're rated at 95hz +/-3. The drop-off after that is not too horrible: 85db-80Hz, 82db-70Hz , 78db-60Hz.

My current Paradigm bipoles are tested at 120 Hz +/-2 and Audyssey crosses them over at 90-100Hz. So I'm hoping to get 80-90Hz crossover form the QS8. The professional reviews as well as user feedback on forums is so good, I'd figured it was worth a shot.

Since I'm so close to the side and rear walls, direct firing speakers on the sides or rear walls are just too distracting and localized for me.

N Boros;
Thanks for the feedback! The max I can move the seating away from the wall is 3-3.5' ( I absolutely need to be 10-11' away from the screen to avoid headaches). I'm planning on making some 2x4 temporary stands for the surrounds and move them around to see where the best placement is before running wire in the wall and mounting them.

This is my 5th upgrade in a year so I really need it to be the last (for 5-10 years at least). So any money I try to save now may end up costing me more down the road if I play the what-if game. I really want to get the best possible setup for the room, not taking cost into consideration. If the Sierra-2s with Horizon C are the best possible option, then saving money would a great bonus.

The main issue I have with the fronts, is the limited space along that wall and also the doorway being there. So I can't have the L speaker sticking too far out from the wall and restricting the space when you walk into the room and possibly getting knocked over or hit. Here's how I see the main pros and cons of each option:

Option 1: 3 Horizon RAAL, all horizontal.
PROS: "tower-like" sound without the big towers, front ported so they can be up against wall, several people have done this and are very happy with results, all speakers would be at same height under TV.
CONS: Only 58" apart between L/R tweeters, possibly too much speaker for room size?

Option 2: 3 Horizon RAAL, C horizontal, LR vertical with tweeters on the outside.
PROS: "tower-like" sound without the big towers, front ported so they can be up against wall, LR tweeters would be 75" apart.

CONS: possibly too much speaker for room size? May look bit lopsided having the L/R vertical, with tweeters at ear-level, the tops of L/R would go up around 10" past bottom of the TV (this matters because they would be close to the TV on both sides and it might block some of the screen from off-axis viewing positions)

Option 3: 1 Horizon RAAL, 2 Sierra 2
PROS:, LR tweeters would be 75" apart like option 2, all speakers would be under the TV, wife's first choice.
CONS: Sierra 2s would have to be away from the wall and stick out into the doorway, prob won't be able to put them on wall shelves so they would have to be on stands, lacks dedicated midrange driver and may have a smaller soundstage then options 1-2.

So that's where I'm at right now. I have no clue if:

1. 17" of additional space between L/R tweeters for options 2-3 is even audible or worth any consideration?
2. Whether it's likely I would actually hear a difference between Sierras or Horizons for L/R?

[N Boros]

Option 1: 3 Horizon RAAL, all horizontal.
PROS: "tower-like" sound without the big towers, front ported so they can be up against wall, several people have done this and are very happy with results, all speakers would be at same height under TV.
CONS: Only 58" apart between L/R tweeters, possibly too much speaker for room size?

Option 2: 3 Horizon RAAL, C horizontal, LR vertical with tweeters on the outside.
PROS: "tower-like" sound without the big towers, front ported so they can be up against wall, LR tweeters would be 75" apart.

CONS: possibly too much speaker for room size? May look bit lopsided having the L/R vertical, with tweeters at ear-level, the tops of L/R would go up around 10" past bottom of the TV (this matters because they would be close to the TV on both sides and it might block some of the screen from off-axis viewing positions)

Option 3: 1 Horizon RAAL, 2 Sierra 2
PROS:, LR tweeters would be 75" apart like option 2, all speakers would be under the TV, wife's first choice.
CONS: Sierra 2s would have to be away from the wall and stick out into the doorway, prob won't be able to put them on wall shelves so they would have to be on stands, lacks dedicated midrange driver and may have a smaller soundstage then options 1-2.

So that's where I'm at right now. I have no clue if:

1. 17" of additional space between L/R tweeters for options 2-3 is even audible or worth any consideration?
2. Whether it's likely I would actually hear a difference between Sierras or Horizons for L/R?

I would look at the following thread:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...ght=#post50900

Rob H. has some custom Horizons, that are designed to be used vertically. Just orienting a Horizon speaker with the longer dimension vertically, is not the best idea, since it was designed to be oriented with the longer dimension horizontally. The reason being, that the wider dispersion horizontally is now going to be wider dispersion vertically and the narrower dispersion vertically will now be horizontal.

I suggest that if you want them oriented the other way, then do something like Rob H. and get a custom one designed for that purpose. Although it is going to be quite a bit more expensive. Look carefully about his posts though. The discusses how the difference between the Sierra 2s and his custom Raal Horizons are pretty subtle. He mentioned in another post that he might not even be able to pick out the Raal Horizon if it was a blind test. That was enough for me to be perfectly content with continuing to use my Sierra 2s for my front soundstage. It costs about double the price to get to a horizon or tower with the Raal ribbon tweeter, and I just don't think that I will see anywhere near double the performance increase. Now, if was sitting much further away from my speakers, then I might get to the point where the Sierra towers would make sense, in the need for extra output. But, you and I both don't need the extra output.

[yesplease]

Thanks for the link! That pretty much does it for me. I would be absolutely shocked if I could even tell them apart in my tiny room. The 2k saved can go to adding another sub.

Sierra 2s it is!!!

[N Boros]

Thanks for the link! That pretty much does it for me. I would be absolutely shocked if I could even tell them apart in my tiny room. The 2k saved can go to adding another sub.

Sierra 2s it is!!!

Happy to help. I think you may have saved 2k AND the Sierra 2s might sound better. The Raal Horizons in a compromised placement I am betting would sound worse than properly placed Sierra 2s. I hope you like you new speakers.

[Blutarsky]

One thing about the QS8's are they require a fairly high crossover point.

Thanks Curtis. I think I need bipolar or quad polar surrounds for my intended 5.1 system. I found reviews that the Axiom QS8 could be crossed at 80 hz. I think would work for my S-2s
Does anyone recommend rear onwall or in wall speakers around $1000 per pair. A couple of sources said that timbre matching isn't a big deal for rear surrounds.

My list is Deftec, Martin Logan, Sunfire, Golden Ear MPX....

B.

[curtis]

Thanks Curtis. I think I need bipolar or quad polar surrounds for my intended 5.1 system. I found reviews that the Axiom QS8 could be crossed at 80 hz. I think would work for my S-2s
Does anyone recommend rear onwall or in wall speakers around $1000 per pair. A couple of sources said that timbre matching isn't a big deal for rear surrounds.

According to their own specs, if you cross at 80hz, you will have a hole in the response.

Why do you think you need bi/quad-polars for surrounds?

While timbre matching surrounds may not be as crucial as the front stage, once you have timbre matching all the way around, you will think otherwise.

You are paying good money, and made an effort to have an excellent front stage...I would try and get close timbre matching.

Have you tried the HTM-200SE?