Looking to Replace Older B&W 804 Speakers

[luisv]

Hello everyone... I'm new to this forum as well as to Ascend speakers.

For the last few months, I’ve toying with the idea of upgrading my 16+ year old B&W 804 Matrix speakers and HTM center channel. Although they still sound wonderful, I’ve been bitten once again by the upgrade bug, so I’m starting to perform research so I can prepare my wallet and wife for the day I perform the swap. I auditioned the replacement B&W Diamond models and although they sounded fantastic in the store, I wasn’t so pleased with their associated cost. To say the least, it’s a significant increase from 16+ years ago when I originally purchased my B&Ws. Here's some basic info on my current system:

Components:

• Pre-amp / Processor - Emotiva XMC-1
• Bluray Player / CD Transport - Oppo BDP-103
• Amps - Emotiva XPA-2 (L / R) and XPA-5 (Center and 4 surrounds)
• Sonos Connect for streaming music
• Sub - HSU VTF-15H

Room:

• 17’ 4” x 18’ with 8’ ceilings
• Various acoustic panels and bass traps throughout the room
• L / R Speakers are roughly 8’ apart with Center 24” off the ground
• L / C / R Speakers are located on the 18’ wall
• Main listening position puts us roughly 13” from the center channel

I currently have the 3 B&Ws crossed over at 50hz to the sub. These days, we basically do 75% movies (7.1) with 25% music (2.1); however, my critical listening is down to around 10% or less as the family has been enjoying our new 100” screen and projector.

Besides considering the Sierra Tower and Horizon, I have the following speakers on my audition list:

• Aperion Verus Grand Towers and Grand Center
• Martin Logan Motion 40 or 60XT Towers and 50XT Center
• SVS Ultra Towers and Center
• XTZ Cinema X6 for L / C / R
• Sonus Faber Venere Series
• Revel Concerta2 Line (Announced at CES)

Sorry for being long winded, but I wanted to give you as much background info as possible. So, my question is and I know it might be unfair of me to ask, but how would the Sierra Tower’s compare to the B&W 800 line? My older B&Ws, to my ears, are musically pleasing; however, when called upon (movie or audio) they are dynamic yet not fatiguing. I’m not a fan of horns nor do I need the visceral impact of say Tekton Pendragons nor JTR speakers, but I do like the dynamic impact yet musical finesse that my B&Ws provide.

While at a local Best Buy Magnolia store, I auditioned the B&W 600 and CM lines; however, I wasn’t impressed. I actually preferred the Martin Logan Motion towers that I also listened to while I was there. Another local dealer carries Golden Ear, but again, I wasn’t impressed.

We basically listen to anything with a good beat, vocals and such; however, no rap will be played.

So... long story short, I understand that nothing beats an in home demo and my own listening experiences; however, any and all opinions, recommendations, etc are welcomed. Since this is an Ascend forum I'm sure folks would be somewhat biased, but has anyone moved from the older B&W 800 series to Ascend?

Any questions please post them here and thanks in advance for your time and help.

[AR2ax man]

Hi Luisv,

Being a longtime B&W fan, which switched to Ascend. I can give you some input. Thou I never had the luxury of owning 800 series B&W, never could fund it, thou I spent many times drooling over listening to them at my trusted local audio store. Once my ascend towers arrived and I listened to them, they brought me to hi fi heaven like the 800 series always did listening to them. I came from 603S2, which I truly enjoyed for many years like you, but I could not believe for the price of the Ascend, they competed with the 800 series in my mind.

For your situation, I would say is more of a lateral move, except for the Raal Towers being more smooth on the top end, and Ascend having flatter response then the B&W signature sound. Only way you can know for yourself is try to find someone in your area that might let you listening to their Ascends.

Other difference in my opinion below, which in your case wont matter, since you probably have your setup most tweaked to perfection do to having them for years.

1)Ascend easier to place-B&W take some time to find the right spot.
2)B&W need or should I say love high current amps-Ascend do not
3)Ascend Bamboo finishes look awesome, better then B&W I my opinion
4)The Ascend two smaller 5 inch bass drives will play little lower than your B&W 6.5 driver. For music I rarely engage my sub.

[luisv]

Thanks so much for the reply!

Agreed, an in home trial would prove best, but in my quest I was hoping to hear what others had prior to the towers, reasons why they choose / purchased them, understand what else they looked into, their setups, requirements, etc. I know we all hear differently and have varied requirements, but my hope was to help narrow choices down based on feedback from others that have recently auditioned speaker X and chose the Ascends. For example, you went from B&W speakers to the Ascends, so I was hoping that I would find others, like you, that within their journey had B&Ws and could provide some feedback.

I know that nothing beats my own ears and room; however, it's been a while since I've shopped for speakers and I was trying to help narrow my choices down based on hearing what others have gone through and experienced. Never mind the fact that my wife would probably kill me if I had multiple ID speakers shipped to the house, the need to store / haul them around the room, make decisions and then bring them to UPS after my decision was made. lol

[Sivar]

I will chime in only regarding the parts I have knowledge of:

• Aperion speakers are not low-quality products, but Ascend's Sierra series are very obviously in a different class despite being of similar cost. I have seen and heard both up-close and personal.
• SVS makes really, really good subwoofers for the price. They are known for subwoofers, not main speakers, just as Martin Logan is known for main speakers and not subwoofers.

I, too, strongly considered Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, and Revel (and, before a friend got a set of Aperions, I considered theirs as well).
I won't lose credibility by saying that X is "better" than Y, as you will often read, the only real way to tell is to have all in your own listening room playing your material, but I will say this:

- Every speaker out there is made out of particle board. Ascend is the only one of those listed that uses bamboo. My research indicates that bamboo is not just superior in its resonance deadening capability, but amazingly, almost absurdly superior. It is also tough to work with (literally -- try using a router on a bamboo board. I hope you have a few dozen spare router bits!). A few other companies use bamboo, stone, or extruded aluminum, but those speakers are typically a few notches higher in price.

- Every speaker manufacturer brags about how awesome their special magic drivers are. Notice that Ascend not only explains why theirs are special, they provide some of the most alarmingly detailed charts, graphs, and numbers to back it up.
Waterfall graphs are of particular interest to me. Compare the Sierra 2's waterfall chart with any other speaker, even the biggest of the big names such as Focal, Wilson, or Kharma. Even in the ultra-pragmatic, almost cynical world of DIY speakers, the RAAL ribbon tweeter, for example, is widely regarded as "probably the world's best tweeter", even compared to the SEAS Excel Diamond and similar at 7x the price.

- Also consider Magnapan speakers. They are about as efficient as a 1950's Dodge V-8, but are worth a listen.

[luisv]

Thanks for your input Sivar. I've listened to Magnapan and enjoyed them; however, due to their size and overall style, my wife wouldn't be pleased with them in our room. It's all about compromises...

[luisv]

Bit the bullet and just placed an order for the towers and horizon center with RAAL in Black Satin. Once they arrive and connected, I'll post my thoughts on how they compare to my 16+ year old B&Ws.

[Djoel]

Hey Luis,

A late to the party!

Glad you're on board, and to see you here. Congrats on the new speakers, as you know I've also come from B&W 800 series, Nautilus to be exact and I'm quite happy with my purchase.

I at first I thought I was taking a step back, down grading but the Towers are right up there with the B&W big boys, and I'll reiterate the Towers are allot similar to the B&W imho, they both have the sweetness in the mids, and great highs, but the raal tweeter really smooth things out. The B&W have the double 8" woofers, but I never felt I need a sub for music in my room.
At the moment I don't have a sub, as I sold it feeling it was getting long on the tooth. but I've been with out one going on two years YIKES!

Again you'll soon be the judge, congrats and welcome.

Talk later at the lounge.

Dan

[Djoel]

Here's a little show and tell, as gorgeous as they 802n are/were I really don't miss them!

I was listening to the Tchaikovsky Nutcracker SACD http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/3268 and it was one of the most beautiful things I heard through my Towers! Simply glorious

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[luisv]

Thanks Dan. Looking forward to testing them out in my system and seeing how they stack up to my B&Ws. They aren't the 802s, but they are the single component in my system that I haven't changed in the last 16+ years. The Ascends sure have big shoes to fill... not saying the Towers and Horizon aren't up to task, but they need to win my wife and kids over as well.

[luisv]

Looks like I should have the towers by the end of the month.