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Thread: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    118

    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Thanks Wanger for starting this discussion. FirstReflect is helping me with my setup as well because I have the Denon 4520CI as well. Thank you FirstReflect for taking the time to provide such detailed instructions. I hope your family is feeling better.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    Zanesville Ohio
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    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Thanks for the kind words. Glad to hear your getting use out of the thread. Are you following along and waiting on me to get going? I hope not. Just do your testing and post here and I will try catch up ..Good listening,,,And Good Luck,
    I'm certainly wondering if your satisfied with that 4250,or critical, as I have been. But I need to hold judgment till after we do all the legwork to optimize it.
    I just ordered theses speakers ( OH YEA,... I'm excited!!) so I don't know if Rob thinks I should hold up and wait for them or what... And I am 95% sure I'm going to pull the trigger and get another amp while I'm In the mood and have available overtime at work right now.... I asked Daves opinion on what he likes with his speakers and told me ATI makes a really nice amp, so I have had my eye on a ATI 2005 . I'll use the Denon as a Pre.. The speakers wont be here for a couple months so I was going to try to time it so they all arrived together..
    Thoughts Rob. ?
    Also,..Was wondering about the tuberculosis scare . My brother just had legionnaires disease 2 months ago! My mother is with pneumonia, among other things. Same ward in the same hospital! Hope everybody on your end is on the mend... Wanger
    Last edited by Wanger 714; 02-06-2015 at 03:23 PM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    65

    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanger 714 View Post
    Thanks for the kind words. Glad to hear your getting use out of the thread. Are you following along and waiting on me to get going? I hope not. Just do your testing and post here and I will try catch up ..Good listening,,,And Good Luck,
    I'm certainly wondering if your satisfied with that 4250,or critical, as I have been. But I need to hold judgment till after we do all the legwork to optimize it.
    I just ordered theses speakers ( OH YEA,... I'm excited!!) so I don't know if Rob thinks I should hold up and wait for them or what... And I am 95% sure I'm going to pull the trigger and get another amp while I'm In the mood and have available overtime at work right now.... I asked Daves opinion on what he likes with his speakers and told me ATI makes a really nice amp, so I have had my eye on a ATI 2005 . I'll use the Denon as a Pre.. The speakers wont be here for a couple months so I was going to try to time it so they all arrived together..
    Thoughts Rob. ?
    Wondering why you would need an external amp? Are you planning for 11.1 setup? The Denon 4520 certainly has enough internal amps to push your forth coming towers to levels to cry uncle at. I would only buy an external amp if going to the 11.1 set up and in fact have purchased an external amp just so I could go to the 11.1. I have a 4311ci which was the flagship before the 4520 and can say it has enough power to drive the 9.1 system to ear shattering levels by it self. Audiolover458 can vouch for that, since he has heard my system.
    But if you need to spend your overtime money, I would look in the area for substantial subs. 2 subs are always better than one and that will cost you some money.
    Last edited by Harro; 02-07-2015 at 07:49 AM.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Quote Originally Posted by Harro View Post
    Wondering why you would need an external amp? Are you planning for 11.1 setup? The Denon 4520 certainly has enough internal amps to push your forth coming towers to levels to cry uncle at. I would only buy an external amp if going to the 11.1 set up and in fact have purchased an external amp just so I could go to the 11.1. I have a 4311ci which was the flagship before the 4520 and can say it has enough power to drive the 9.1 system to ear shattering levels by it self. Audiolover458 can vouch for that, since he has heard my system.
    But if you need to spend your overtime money, I would look in the area for substantial subs. 2 subs are always better than one and that will cost you some money.
    Hi
    I just want "impact" ...I want to feel it. Sound yes, clarity yes, but I want that live thump..I ask Dina and she said at those "turned up level's" that a amp makes a definite difference. I have two MX 70 SF M&K subs and a MX 125 SF .. The fact that I want this system for 75% music,,not so much movie sound, also makes me think more power is better. I still watch movies with the wife, but I like to ROCK! And a little Country...and a little Progressive Jazz... LOL
    And I don't understand why a 150 watt receiver weighs less than 50 lbs...but a good 200 watt Amp weights near a 100? ...Something is in that amp that receivers don't use (that is heavy).... Why do they put it in there? And why don't receivers?
    You guys ,I race cars . Been in the racing circuit all my life. Been on the engine "dyno" many an hour. If I can relate this to something I DO know something about for a second... If our engine makes 700 horsepower and (500) ft pounds of torque ,it will be a good piece..BUT..If it makes the same horsepower but it makes 50 more foot pound of torque(550) it will be quite a bit faster although the horsepower is the same... Is this why the amps put out more "push".
    So is the watt rating like the horsepower ?
    Last edited by Wanger 714; 02-07-2015 at 03:03 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    118

    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    I think the weight in the AMPs is the heavy aluminum heatsinks so that they do not have fan noise which is the effect on the PRO AMPS which are usually half the price.

    Dont confuse horsepower with AMP Power. I can confirm having heard Harros system and having used my 4520 with the Towers that you cannot max out the AVR using the Towers.

    Also Harro has tested his Emotiva XPA3 with his Speakers and he felt no difference in the sound of any kind whatsoever. Go to AVS Forum and do some more reading so you will know but do not go to the Emotiva forum haha or you will end up buying mucho AMPS.

    Test your speakers FIRST with Just the AVR and if you feel you need more you can try the External AMP.

    I see that you are in the I want to spend some serious money mode which cost me thousands when I did so without any education. But hey it's only money and its YOUR Money :-). First Reflect actually wanted you to test your current system without doing anything but you could not even wait. But hey great buy indeed with the Towers. If they dont do it for you then not sure what will but the THUMP comes from the SUBS. Get the Biggest and Baddest one you can afford AND Balance them per First Reflects instructions.

    Good Luck and Happy Listening!!! In a few weeks LOL.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    65

    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Maybe this video will help explain why an external amp wouldn't be need to high SPL. Granted the speakers in the video are more efficient but even so at 20 watts amp with a peak of a 110dbs is loud. The 4520 I believe is rated at 150 watts with 2 channels driven.


  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    590

    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Yep
    I had typed up a rather large post explaining the situation, but deleted it.
    Moral of the story?
    That 4520 has a very powerful amp, so even cranking that thing 1/2 way would be VERY loud on Ascend speakers without strain, these aren't 70DB sensitivity speakers...
    Want it twice as loud? Find another place to live, become single, get ridiculous 1500W amp and new speakers.
    That kinda power is for Subs, not mains/C IMHO.
    My Denon 988 or my 110WPC(8ohms- 160W 4Ohm) Boston Acoustics A7200 will make my current room ridiculous- it's 13x13x7.5- my OLD room was MUCH larger, ~ 25x14x7.5- plus a stairway that went up stairs, and the Boston amp was really loud...but how much louder than the 988? I dunno, never even ran the Denon amp until recently(have owned it for 8 years)...I'm guessing not much, but maybe a lil better dynamics at very loud volumes...VERY loud.

    Maybe I'm wrong, many tests of decent amps/AVRS tell me I'm probably not that far off for the most part.
    Quality is the main thing,that 4520 is considered Denons flagship....I'm seriously doubting it has a crap amp, but I've been wrong before!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Zanesville Ohio
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    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Quote Originally Posted by muzz View Post
    Yep
    I had typed up a rather large post explaining the situation, but deleted it.
    Moral of the story?
    That 4520 has a very powerful amp, so even cranking that thing 1/2 way would be VERY loud on Ascend speakers without strain, these aren't 70DB sensitivity speakers...
    Want it twice as loud? Find another place to live, become single, get ridiculous 1500W amp and new speakers.
    That kinda power is for Subs, not mains/C IMHO.
    My Denon 988 or my 110WPC(8ohms- 160W 4Ohm) Boston Acoustics A7200 will make my current room ridiculous- it's 13x13x7.5- my OLD room was MUCH larger, ~ 25x14x7.5- plus a stairway that went up stairs, and the Boston amp was really loud...but how much louder than the 988? I dunno, never even ran the Denon amp until recently(have owned it for 8 years)...I'm guessing not much, but maybe a lil better dynamics at very loud volumes...VERY loud.

    Maybe I'm wrong, many tests of decent amps/AVRS tell me I'm probably not that far off for the most part.
    Quality is the main thing,that 4520 is considered Denons flagship....I'm seriously doubting it has a crap amp, but I've been wrong before!
    I'm not going to let Sue read this..... She knows how much I wanna ass kickin jute box...HA HA..Seriously, thanks everybody. I will be doing First Reflects test, and I really appreciate his help (and you guys). I can still do all the testing on the subs with out wasting my time on the M&K's Bookshelf's. I was never going to be satisfied with them. I'm ready for a step up. They are going out in the garage.

    Thanks again...Wanger

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    130

    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Congratulations Wagner on the purchase...

    Other than power, a case can be made in favor of the ATI 2005 amp for It has an SNR greater than 120db ... Its very silent. Pause some material and take the volume all the way up and might not hear anything at all... Where on most amps you hear a hiss coming from your tweeters. Especially if they are efficient speakers and the Tower Raal is very efficient.

    It also has very good slew rate (good for transients). It is a differential/balanced amp, you its full benefits running it balanced. Still, I say go for it!

    I sure would!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    590

    Default Re: Help a New Forum Member Set Up a System That ROCKS

    Is most of your music listening 2 channel, or something else like 5 channel mode?
    The 4520 specs only show 2 channels driven at 150W, I have no idea what the specs would be with all 5 channels driven- my A7200 is 100Wx7, 20hz-20khz, all channels driven @.02%THD
    Regarding weight- Class AB amps have large transformers and heat sinks, class D or H amps are a lot lighter, due to a completely different design.
    My A7200 has 2 large toroidal transformers,7 separate monoblock amps, and weighs 80lbs....only so much real estate in an AVR, as you have the whole front end as well, in pretty much the same size chassis.

    I think FR has you on the right track, and with the better setup and new speakers, should surpass your old setup by a fair margin....
    If you still feel like you need an amp, there are plenty available, and you don't have to spend a ton of $ to get 1.

    Have fun!

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