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Thread: Rythmik F8

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    360

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    The F8 is everything I was looking for in a subwoofer: tight, detailed, deep bass all in a compact package. I used to have a JL Audio F112 ($3,000 retail) and I would say that the F8 is at least as good if not better when it comes to bass articulation. The JL probably had a bit more output but I'm sure the F8 can play more than loud enough to disturb my neighbors.

  2. #72
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    Jan 2017
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    9

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    sorry to necro this thread, but i was wondering how to best integrate an f8 with my maggies (3.7i)
    It's only for music.
    The room is large (40x15 with a sloping ceiling(7ft to 14ft)
    Room is treated with curtains and REW shows only a small dip at 80hz although bass below 50 is rolled off significantly.
    The audio chain is a pc (win 10 pro with custom usb card)->gustard x20 dac->preamp->amps->speakers.

    Room correction software has not yet been added. So my question is this:
    If I add a couple of F8 subs, I'll want to have a crossover to spare the maggies the stress of reproducing the low freqs. I would cross over at 50 hz since that's what the f8 has. I would choos the steepest rolloff possible which in this case is 24 db. But my concern has to do with the crossover and the noise it will add to the signal. I know there are analog as well as digital cross overs. The digital ones have an a/d conversion step, then the dsp occurs in a chip and then another d/a converter. Since I go to all this trouble to get a low noise floor, I would then consider using dsp in the pc. This way, room correction occurs in the digital domain before the signal ever hits the d/a converter.

    I have looked at acourate and dirac for this purpose. But I still need a simple way to get the low freqs to the sub and the high freqs to the maggies. I have tried to keep everything simple. My preamp is actually a headphone amp with a pair of balanced outputs in the back. These go directly to the magtech monoblocks powering the maggies.

    I know I could get a DEQX or a dbx venu360. These devices not only room correct but also take into account each speaker independently and can equalize them independently. But if I am going to this trouble, I could also sell the gustardx20 and just pipe the signal directly into this crossover/dac device. OF course there are limitations - no >96khz songs, no DSD.

    Anyway, I thought I'd ask how people here are integrating their rythmiks with their planar speakers?

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    457

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by skypickle View Post
    sorry to necro this thread, but i was wondering how to best integrate an f8 with my maggies (3.7i)
    It's only for music.
    The room is large (40x15 with a sloping ceiling(7ft to 14ft)
    Room is treated with curtains and REW shows only a small dip at 80hz although bass below 50 is rolled off significantly.
    The audio chain is a pc (win 10 pro with custom usb card)->gustard x20 dac->preamp->amps->speakers.

    Room correction software has not yet been added. So my question is this:
    If I add a couple of F8 subs, I'll want to have a crossover to spare the maggies the stress of reproducing the low freqs. I would cross over at 50 hz since that's what the f8 has. I would choos the steepest rolloff possible which in this case is 24 db. But my concern has to do with the crossover and the noise it will add to the signal. I know there are analog as well as digital cross overs. The digital ones have an a/d conversion step, then the dsp occurs in a chip and then another d/a converter. Since I go to all this trouble to get a low noise floor, I would then consider using dsp in the pc. This way, room correction occurs in the digital domain before the signal ever hits the d/a converter.

    I have looked at acourate and dirac for this purpose. But I still need a simple way to get the low freqs to the sub and the high freqs to the maggies. I have tried to keep everything simple. My preamp is actually a headphone amp with a pair of balanced outputs in the back. These go directly to the magtech monoblocks powering the maggies.

    I know I could get a DEQX or a dbx venu360. These devices not only room correct but also take into account each speaker independently and can equalize them independently. But if I am going to this trouble, I could also sell the gustardx20 and just pipe the signal directly into this crossover/dac device. OF course there are limitations - no >96khz songs, no DSD.

    Anyway, I thought I'd ask how people here are integrating their rythmiks with their planar speakers?
    By far the simplest way is to use the internal crossovers on the subs, just make sure you order the model that has them (The XLR amps don't have crossovers). Just put the RCA cables from the preamp into the subs, then output from the subs to the amps. This keeps you in the analog domain so you will have the fewest problems with noise and there's no extra a/d and d/a conversion. You don't really need to get fancy with any other devices, since you know how to use REW you can just dial your system in that way. I doubt you'll have many issues since going with dual subs makes things much easier as well.

    Just my two cents.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    9

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by sludgeogre View Post
    (The XLR amps don't have crossovers). Just put the RCA cables from the preamp into the subs, then output from the subs to the amps.

    Just my two cents.
    Thank you. But the subs I am considering are these:
    http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F8.html
    The back looks like this
    bass_extension_sm.jpg

    and this
    RCA_miniXLR.jpg

    I did not see any images of line outputs from which I would feed the amps to my maggies.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    457

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by skypickle View Post
    Thank you. But the subs I am considering are these:
    http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F8.html
    The back looks like this
    bass_extension_sm.jpg

    and this
    RCA_miniXLR.jpg

    I did not see any images of line outputs from which I would feed the amps to my maggies.
    My apologies, I thought the F8 had the crossover in the amp, but I guess not. The F12 does have it though, I just checked: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download...quickguide.pdf

    The F12 is a little more expensive, though, but I think it is an intensely good subwoofer. It is also more appropriate for the crossover frequency you're looking at, as the F8 is more ideal for pairing with bookshelves that need to be crossed over much higher. The F8 can go as high as 250 Hz whereas the F12 goes up to above 150 Hz, the F12 also has the aluminum driver.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by sludgeogre View Post
    My apologies, I thought the F8 had the crossover in the amp, but I guess not. The F12 does have it though, I just checked: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download...quickguide.pdf

    The F12 is a little more expensive, though, but I think it is an intensely good subwoofer. It is also more appropriate for the crossover frequency you're looking at, as the F8 is more ideal for pairing with bookshelves that need to be crossed over much higher. The F8 can go as high as 250 Hz whereas the F12 goes up to above 150 Hz, the F12 also has the aluminum driver.
    Thank you. I was looking at the F8 because this is to augment the maggie 3.7i - a very fast speaker. I thought that a small cone for the woofer would be best. Also, I am concerned about muddy bass as flapping happens in bigger cones(when the rim of the cone is not in sync with the hub). Of course it's hard to know if this stuff is measured - surely it is never published. The F12 looks just like what i need. The line outs are crossed at 80 hz but I dont know the slope of that high pass filter. The lo pass cross (pictured at the bottom of the control panel) has a choice of 50hz with a 24 db slope or 80 hz with a 24 db slope. I guess that setting depends on what the room is doing. But then there is another setting near the top of the control panel labeled crossover level. That seems confusing. And then to add to the confusion is a volume knob next to it with the blurb 'Volume level setting is determined by the efficiency of front speakers. It is not an indication of whether the sub can play louder or not. '

    I guess I should email rythmik for clarification.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    457

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by skypickle View Post
    Thank you. I was looking at the F8 because this is to augment the maggie 3.7i - a very fast speaker. I thought that a small cone for the woofer would be best. Also, I am concerned about muddy bass as flapping happens in bigger cones(when the rim of the cone is not in sync with the hub). Of course it's hard to know if this stuff is measured - surely it is never published. The F12 looks just like what i need. The line outs are crossed at 80 hz but I dont know the slope of that high pass filter. The lo pass cross (pictured at the bottom of the control panel) has a choice of 50hz with a 24 db slope or 80 hz with a 24 db slope. I guess that setting depends on what the room is doing. But then there is another setting near the top of the control panel labeled crossover level. That seems confusing. And then to add to the confusion is a volume knob next to it with the blurb 'Volume level setting is determined by the efficiency of front speakers. It is not an indication of whether the sub can play louder or not. '

    I guess I should email rythmik for clarification.
    I don't think you need to worry about cone size with Rythmik subs. As you said, some larger subs produce muddy bass with that flapping action, but because of the direct servo technology that Rythmik uses, the sensing coil is always controlling that action, making sure that the cone is moving how it is supposed to and compensating in real time. I really think the F12 is much more appropriate for what you are trying to do. I'm part of a Magnepan user group on Facebook since I own an old pair of Tympani 1D's and most guys are running F12's with their Maggies in that group. I've just never used mine with the F12's and I have the XLR amp so I don't have the crossover, I just use Audyssey for that on my AV7701 processor.

    The crossover knob on the subs is only to cut off where the sub stops playing, it doesn't do anything to the high pass filter. The F12 high pass/low pass is set only at 80 Hz, but you can still play with the slope I think. The volume knob is just a normal volume knob, they are just saying that how you want to set that all depends on how efficient your speakers are. If you have high sensitivity speakers, then you can set the volume pretty low, but with power hungry speakers like Maggies, you'll probably run it a little higher. If you run dual subs, you can use a splitter on the input and that gives you 6 dB of more gain, so you get higher volume for each click of the volume knob, if that makes sense.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  8. #78
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Stouffville,Ont..
    Posts
    538

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by skypickle View Post
    Thank you. I was looking at the F8 because this is to augment the maggie 3.7i - a very fast speaker. I thought that a small cone for the woofer would be best. Also, I am concerned about muddy bass as flapping happens in bigger cones(when the rim of the cone is not in sync with the hub). Of course it's hard to know if this stuff is measured - surely it is never published. The F12 looks just like what i need. The line outs are crossed at 80 hz but I dont know the slope of that high pass filter. The lo pass cross (pictured at the bottom of the control panel) has a choice of 50hz with a 24 db slope or 80 hz with a 24 db slope. I guess that setting depends on what the room is doing. But then there is another setting near the top of the control panel labeled crossover level. That seems confusing. And then to add to the confusion is a volume knob next to it with the blurb 'Volume level setting is determined by the efficiency of front speakers. It is not an indication of whether the sub can play louder or not. '

    I guess I should email rythmik for clarification.
    Please read this article about some subwoofer myths and fallacies...

    http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=knowhow&type=1
    Speakers 5.1.2: TitanTowers v2 & STC(RAAL v2), MA CP-WT&CT260
    Sub: Funk Audio 18.0 SantosRW

    Source: Denon X3800H, Oppo BDP 103D, UBK-90 4K & LG B9 65"
    Office 2.0: Philharmonic True Mini(coming-soon), Fosi TB10D via Wiim mini.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    360

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    The F8 does have a slight advantage when it comes to bass articulation compared to the other subs in the Rythmik lineup. Both Brian and Dave will tell you this. It has to do with the mass of the woofers. I had even asked Brian about using black aluminum cones in the F8 simply because I like they way they look, and he told me that you would lose sound quality due to the heavier mass of aluminum cones.

    That being said, you may be better of with the F12 due to the more feature rich crossover.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Stouffville,Ont..
    Posts
    538

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    The F8 does have a slight advantage when it comes to bass articulation compared to the other subs in the Rythmik lineup. Both Brian and Dave will tell you this. It has to do with the mass of the woofers. I had even asked Brian about using black aluminum cones in the F8 simply because I like they way they look, and he told me that you would lose sound quality due to the heavier mass of aluminum cones.

    That being said, you may be better of with the F12 due to the more feature rich crossover.
    I reckon as JR alluded too....the mass loaded or stiffer cone might only effect higher frequencies and for a sub though its likely inaudible for most....iirc....my driver has a +/- 3db up to 800hz...but I am not interested in finding out....as most bass interaction in any particular room will start to sound bloated or localize above 200hz in any event.
    Last edited by billy p; 01-03-2017 at 04:37 PM.
    Speakers 5.1.2: TitanTowers v2 & STC(RAAL v2), MA CP-WT&CT260
    Sub: Funk Audio 18.0 SantosRW

    Source: Denon X3800H, Oppo BDP 103D, UBK-90 4K & LG B9 65"
    Office 2.0: Philharmonic True Mini(coming-soon), Fosi TB10D via Wiim mini.

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