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Thread: Rythmik F8

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    For passive speaker, the frequency reponse looks the same as the max SPL response because the amplifer has no EQ and we just scale them up (add 20db for 100WRMS). But all subs have EQ to get the bass extension on the FR plot. Exactly where the max SPL is going to be on each frequency is something you don't find unless you go to sites like data-bass.com. I rememeber several years ago, a customer ask one compnay of the T/S parameters of their drivers in their sub. The support guy replied they are proprietary as if the T/S parameters garner secretes lead to their better output. Everyone nowadays has access to subwoofer simulators. A few thing affects the max SPL customers should keep in mind: 1) enclosure size, 2) power amp output rating (as long as manufacturers dont inflate it), and 3) compliance of driver (some drivers have very stiff rubber surround and those takes more power to move). So our F12 output will be similar SB-2000 if not better. So 1db here and there should not be the deal breaker. Customers bought into our subs don't nick and dime max SPL output. That is not our selling point. Our selling point is we get comparable output as our competitors and yet we offer audibly better sound quality.

    Now for transient response. Transient response is measured by time domain impulse response. The more filtering you incorporate, the more so-called group delay the subwoofer will get (and more ringing in the transient response). SVS has incorporate high order filtering to that it is less trouble for the manufacturers. We do understand the importance of low group delay and we make the rumble filter an defeatable opton. In addition, we publish the phase response of our subs. It has 90 degrees phase shift at around 20hz. No other subwoofer comes this low. The result is a fast transient response. Subwoofers with excessive group delay and filtering will sound "boomy" or less natural. If we compare the reproduced sound with the sound that we hear every day, one big difference is our real-world sound does not have filtering and therefore no bandwidth limitation. Subwoofers on the other hand does have bass extensin limitation and once it is limited to 20hz, it is not going to get better even if we use 100 of those. So our goal is produce a sub with least amount of phase shift and as flat as possible. If one sub is not enough, two will work better :-)

    So our plot is to show customers both the amplitude and phase response of a particular model. In practice, I will challenge any company publish max SPL curve with the question if that is measured in snow or in desert? or is it measured in cold start or after 2 hours of pub like playing? This is becasue voice coil temperature is a big factor.
    Last edited by RythmikAudio; 06-23-2015 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Guys,

    I gotta tell you, I have been playing around with dual F8's for a few days now and let me share with you - I am thoroughly impressed. I will do a more formal write up as my time frees up but do not pass judgment on these subs just because they have (2) 8's... These are truly something special...
    These F8s look very interesting.

    Do you have any further impressions/thoughts on dual F8s? How about vs. a pair of F12s?

    If my speakers are capable of 50hz-60hz and higher, used mainly for music (2-channel and multichannel) are the F8s a better choice or is the F12 still the smart choice? How do the F8s perform with the odd movie?

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by Puckhead View Post
    These F8s look very interesting.

    Do you have any further impressions/thoughts on dual F8s? How about vs. a pair of F12s?

    If my speakers are capable of 50hz-60hz and higher, used mainly for music (2-channel and multichannel) are the F8s a better choice or is the F12 still the smart choice? How do the F8s perform with the odd movie?
    Loving my F8's My recommendation would be dual F8's over a single F12, but if budget allows -- dual F12's would likely be the smarter choice.
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    130

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    For passive speaker, the frequency reponse looks the same as the max SPL response because the amplifer has no EQ and we just scale them up (add 20db for 100WRMS). But all subs have EQ to get the bass extension on the FR plot. Exactly where the max SPL is going to be on each frequency is something you don't find unless you go to sites like data-bass.com. I rememeber several years ago, a customer ask one compnay of the T/S parameters of their drivers in their sub. The support guy replied they are proprietary as if the T/S parameters garner secretes lead to their better output. Everyone nowadays has access to subwoofer simulators. A few thing affects the max SPL customers should keep in mind: 1) enclosure size, 2) power amp output rating (as long as manufacturers dont inflate it), and 3) compliance of driver (some drivers have very stiff rubber surround and those takes more power to move). So our F12 output will be similar SB-2000 if not better. So 1db here and there should not be the deal breaker. Customers bought into our subs don't nick and dime max SPL output. That is not our selling point. Our selling point is we get comparable output as our competitors and yet we offer audibly better sound quality.

    Now for transient response. Transient response is measured by time domain impulse response. The more filtering you incorporate, the more so-called group delay the subwoofer will get (and more ringing in the transient response). SVS has incorporate high order filtering to that it is less trouble for the manufacturers. We do understand the importance of low group delay and we make the rumble filter an defeatable opton. In addition, we publish the phase response of our subs. It has 90 degrees phase shift at around 20hz. No other subwoofer comes this low. The result is a fast transient response. Subwoofers with excessive group delay and filtering will sound "boomy" or less natural. If we compare the reproduced sound with the sound that we hear every day, one big difference is our real-world sound does not have filtering and therefore no bandwidth limitation. Subwoofers on the other hand does have bass extensin limitation and once it is limited to 20hz, it is not going to get better even if we use 100 of those. So our goal is produce a sub with least amount of phase shift and as flat as possible. If one sub is not enough, two will work better :-)

    So our plot is to show customers both the amplitude and phase response of a particular model. In practice, I will challenge any company publish max SPL curve with the question if that is measured in snow or in desert? or is it measured in cold start or after 2 hours of pub like playing? This is becasue voice coil temperature is a big factor.
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!

    This is the kind of answer I was hoping to hear and then some!

    Thanks again... Darn, and I was considering an SB-2000...

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Dave,
    How about dual F8's over a single F15 in a large room with towers? I can't sell two F15's at my house.

    Steve

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by shinny View Post
    Dave,
    How about dual F8's over a single F15 in a large room with towers? I can't sell two F15's at my house.

    Steve
    Exactly what I am doing in my living room and I was lucky enough to be able to compare the dual F8's against a single F15 (and also a single F12). In our room (which is quite large) - the dual F8's perform better. Keep in mind that overall sound quality and transient accuracy is what I am most looking for, but I have never even come close to reaching the limits with the dual F8's.
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    130

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    The question to me is dual F8s vs dual F12s! What say you Dave? Would it be just a matter of output and room size?

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post
    The question to me is dual F8s vs dual F12s! What say you Dave? Would it be just a matter of output and room size?
    Between these two options, I would go with dual F12's
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    What is the difference between the black oak and the black matte finish? Which one is close to the base of the natural sierra tower?

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Somewhere in the Boston area
    Posts
    225

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Black matte is a solid color, sort of opaque black. It is not smooth, it has a nice texture to the touch. I have an L12 with that finish. It does not look like wood, but it has an elegant and simple look.

    Black oak I believe it has the sort of "simulated" wood grain that sometime you see in laminated furniture.

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