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Thread: Rythmik F8

  1. #111
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    Somewhere in the Boston area
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    118

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazeppa View Post
    Were they close to 1/2 the cost of a dual F8, I would have 2 single F8's in a heartbeat.

    My application is 2.1 for music only in a small listening space. CBM 170-SE's have been ordered.
    External crossover(s) via Marchand XM-1 modules (LR 24db) are available to me.

    Good transient response and higher usable crossover points of the F8 interest me, but I am unclear if I can make good use of said higher crossover points.

    Can anyone tell me what frequency bass content usually goes from mono to stereo in recorded music?
    Late 60's/early 70's rock&roll is my main jam.
    If the answer is say, 100Hz or less then stereo content is being lost crossing a single F8 at 200Hz is my quandary.

    Space/fiscal constraints limit me to a single sub placed between the mains. An L12 is my backup plan if I can't satisfy myself that I can well utilize the higher crossover point available from the F8.

    I have made inquiry to Rythmik as to the feasibility of modifying an F8 to two separate 8"'s in the stock enclosure and am awaiting further response to my question.
    Why do you want to cross at 200Hz? I have a single L12 paired with two CMT-340 SE main for L&R channels. This combo sounds very, very good with 2-ch music and quite good with movie in a 5.1 configuration. Although the CBM-170 does not reach as low as the CMT-340, it reaches low enough to be crossed at 80Hz, which is still well above it's -3dB roll-off point.

  2. #112
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Harrison, AR
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    I'm quite sure CBM-170's with an L12 crossed @ 80Hz would be great.
    Heck, my $100 eBay NHT SuperZero's running @ full range with a $90 craigslist Paradigm PDR-12 crossed about 80Hz sounds pretty darn good.
    So, going to the 170's and a better sub should be a significant upgrade.

    The reason I'm exploring the idea of crossing the sub higher is in case relieving the 170's of that extra bit of "down low" duty would help the mid/treble performance. Plus, the F8 (by all accounts) could be better in the 80-200Hz range than the 170's.

    I'm about to decide to crossover @80Hz with a single L12.
    Still intrigued by the thought of stereo subs, though. If I could stereo a dual F8.......or, get two single F8's at a reasonable cost.......could be some magic there.

    Glad to hear your L12/340's combo works well. I looked hard at the 340's, but went with the 170's as my listening area is so small.
    Are you running your 340's full range, or high passed @ your sub's xover freq?

  3. #113
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Somewhere in the Boston area
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    I am running the 340s high passed at 80Hz using the bass management in my receiver. The way the L12 works, if it is fed using the LFE input the internal crossover and phase adjustable controls are bypassed. That way the receiver or pre-pro take care of xover and phase, while you can still manually adjust sub output and bass extension. In reference to the latter, I keep the setting in "Low Music", so that the -3dB point of the L12 frequency response is 17Hz.

    Dave can for sure elaborate more (and much better) on the subject, however I believe that crossing at 80Hz you are already helping the CMB-170 quite a bit. Even if the F8 can be used in "stereo" mode (I doubt it), the physical setup of the sub would keep left and right so close to nullify any stereo separation. Not to mention that the spacing would be way less than the spacing of the LR mains.

    I have never tried it, but I believe the best way to have a stereo sub setup is to use two physically separate subs, feed them using the "Line In", one using only the L channel, the other using only the R channel and then adjusting xover, phase and level on both manually.

    Doing this and if you put the two subs underneath or very close to the CBM-170, you could have some advantage is crossing at a higher point. You would effectively turn the CBM-170 plus sub into a 3-way system, with each sub and each CM-170 being co-located and therefore eliminating any mis-localization issue having the sub reproducing frequencies up to 200Hz, because they would be emitting by the same main speakers location.

    On the other hand, if you cross at 200Hz with a single sub, you would be depriving the L and R main of some of the ambient cues that contributes to correct stereo imaging in the mid-bass region, which is exactly the opposite of what you want to accomplish.
    Emotiva Fusion 8100
    Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE Main
    Rythmik L12 Sub

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Harrison, AR
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Yeah, I had wondered if there was enough physical separation between drivers in the F8 to get any noticeable stereo separation.

    Exactly, don't want to cross subs much, if any above 80Hz, unless in a true stereo configuration.

    I believe it's time to quit overthinking this and order an L12.

    Thanks for the feedback, bro.

  5. #115
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,419

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazeppa View Post
    Were they close to 1/2 the cost of a dual F8, I would have 2 single F8's in a heartbeat.

    My application is 2.1 for music only in a small listening space. CBM 170-SE's have been ordered.
    External crossover(s) via Marchand XM-1 modules (LR 24db) are available to me.

    Good transient response and higher usable crossover points of the F8 interest me, but I am unclear if I can make good use of said higher crossover points.

    Can anyone tell me what frequency bass content usually goes from mono to stereo in recorded music?
    Late 60's/early 70's rock&roll is my main jam.
    If the answer is say, 100Hz or less then stereo content is being lost crossing a single F8 at 200Hz is my quandary.

    Space/fiscal constraints limit me to a single sub placed between the mains. An L12 is my backup plan if I can't satisfy myself that I can well utilize the higher crossover point available from the F8.

    I have made inquiry to Rythmik as to the feasibility of modifying an F8 to two separate 8"'s in the stock enclosure and am awaiting further response to my question.
    Hi Mazeppa,

    You are misunderstanding a few important issues here. With speakers like our CBM-170's that can handle being run full range and are essentially flat to 80Hz, you will never want to cross higher than 80Hz. There is an audible disadvantage to crossing higher as frequencies above 80Hz become localized to the subwoofer and this will completely throw off imaging and soundstage presentation.

    Secondly, it is not that bass content is recorded in monaural - it is the fact that bass wavelengths are extremely long (80Hz wavelength is ~ 14ft) such that a listener would not actually hear any stereo separation - thus there is really no point in "stereo bass". Bass as defined at anything below 100Hz.

    Recording engineers typically keep anything below 100Hz as monaural or "centered" - meaning the exact same signal is fed into both the left and right stereo channels so that the image is centered.

    The reason for the option of using a very high crossover point on the F8 is so that people using tiny satellite speakers can cross to a high performance compact sub without ending up with a hole in their in-room frequency response. This is not an issue with any of our products
    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Somewhere in the Boston area
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    What he said!! Like I wrote, Dave elaborated much better

    I am very happy with the L12. YMMV, as they say, but for the price, it is a giant killer, just like the CMT-340 is.
    Emotiva Fusion 8100
    Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE Main
    Rythmik L12 Sub

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Harrison, AR
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Finally got my head where it needed to be on this deal. 80Hz it is.

    Interesting to hear that running the 170's full range is no real detriment to them.
    Cool, forget the high pass from an external crossover to the 170's.
    My 3.1, all active crossover system taught me that while it could be sublime, all in all simpler is better.

    Dave,
    You know, I've never seen a breakdown by frequency of typical audio terminology for ranges.
    Now I know 0-100 for bass, what are the numbers that you, being a speaker designer, use for mid-bass, mid & treble?

    MusicHead had me pretty well squared away on all this.
    I ordered an L12 yesterday. Dina gave me the 5% off even though my 170's were ordered some 8 days or so ago.

    Wow, I haven't even heard an Ascend speaker yet, but I'm ready to start telling my friends about y'all.

  8. #118
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Loveland, Colorado
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazeppa View Post
    ... I've never seen a breakdown by frequency of typical audio terminology for ranges.
    Now I know 0-100 for bass, what are the numbers that you, being a speaker designer, use for mid-bass, mid & treble? ...
    Here is an Interactive Frequency Chart that may help answer your question.
    http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm

    Jack

  9. #119
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Harrison, AR
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Rythmik F8

    Thanks for the link, Jack.

    I've probably strayed sufficiently from the F8 to move myself to more applicable (to my equipment)
    threads.

    Appreciate the help, fellas.

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