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Thread: Do I have enough power?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    I have a hunch that if I moved the couch, the speakers would end up getting moved too...into my new bedroom...in the trailer...down by the river...

    the system actually sounds quite amazing in its current position...the towers are about 14.5 inches in from the rear wall and just over 32 inches in from each side wall - very nice and balanced sound, top to bottom, with no real dips or peaks that stand out (don't have any of that room eq stuff with this basic 2 channel stereo - it just sounds great...unless you're sitting on the couch between the speakers )...and the front plane of the speakers is ahead of anything that might directly absorb/reflect their output (except that darned table lamp to the right...I did try moving that out of the way back in 2011...I found the lamp replaced back in the same position the next day...and it wasn't until later in the week that I was able to find my newly-missing dac...in the furnace room...behind some boxes of Christmas decorations)...

    so...quite, quite, quite happy with things as they are (though may try for the single size chair in espresso brown leather when the time comes)....

  2. #22
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    May 2009
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    277

    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Quote Originally Posted by wilcat_2000 View Post
    I have a hunch that if I moved the couch, the speakers would end up getting moved too...into my new bedroom...in the trailer...down by the river...
    lol!

    the system actually sounds quite amazing in its current position...the towers are about 14.5 inches in from the rear wall and just over 32 inches in from each side wall - very nice and balanced sound, top to bottom, with no real dips or peaks that stand out (don't have any of that room eq stuff with this basic 2 channel stereo - it just sounds great...unless you're sitting on the couch between the speakers )...and the front plane of the speakers is ahead of anything that might directly absorb/reflect their output (except that darned table lamp to the right...I did try moving that out of the way back in 2011...I found the lamp replaced back in the same position the next day...and it wasn't until later in the week that I was able to find my newly-missing dac...in the furnace room...behind some boxes of Christmas decorations)...

    so...quite, quite, quite happy with things as they are (though may try for the single size chair in espresso brown leather when the time comes)....
    Personally I very much like your setup, looks great! The couch between your towers may even be helping the sound for all we know. Additionally, that couch matches the one along the long wall, so I suspect that the powerful and mysterious force that resides within your home - which moves lamps back to their original position and hides new dacs in the basement - would simply bring that couch back if you attempted to replace it!

    Mark

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Quote Originally Posted by wilcat_2000 View Post
    I have a hunch that if I moved the couch, the speakers would end up getting moved too...into my new bedroom...in the trailer...down by the river...
    Yeah, I figured that was the case. I understand, sort of (I'm a bachelor and my stereo placement dictates all else in my room! )

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Quote Originally Posted by markie View Post
    lol!



    Personally I very much like your setup, looks great! The couch between your towers may even be helping the sound for all we know. Additionally, that couch matches the one along the long wall, so I suspect that the powerful and mysterious force that resides within your home - which moves lamps back to their original position and hides new dacs in the basement - would simply bring that couch back if you attempted to replace it!

    Mark
    It's not helping, unless one prefers a sound different from what the towers were designed to produce.

  5. #25
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    May 2009
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beave View Post
    It's not helping, unless one prefers a sound different from what the towers were designed to produce.
    If you read the link to the review I posted, a pair of Sierra 1's pushed back against the wall with a large glass china cabinet between them, and furniture in front of one speaker no less, drastically improved the sound of the Sierras in the room compared to more conventional and supposedly optimal speaker placement.

    Mark

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    You seem to believe every review written online, no matter how fantastical. I don't.

    Anybody who believes that Sierra 1's "pushed back against the wall...and furniture in front of one speaker...drastically improved the sound" obviously doesn't know what good sound is.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beave View Post
    Diffraction like crazy at random frequencies, plus some ranges of frequencies being absorbed while others are reflected (to a degree).
    A couch like the one in the picture is basically fabric & foam with a wooden inner frame, so it will absorb quite a bit more than it will diffract. Just think of a room covered in sofas. The floor, walls, ceiling, etc. Then clap your hands. Do you think you would hear a lot of echo? No... It would act like an anechoic chamber. Maybe some frequencies would be reflected, but significantly given the position of the couch? I doubt it...

    As pictured, only the bottom woofer might have a chance to diffract. The tweeter and mid are far too high to have a significant impact. And again, the degree of impact is unknown. It's probably true that part of the soundwaves are diffracted by the couch, but it's definitely not 100% of the diffracted soundwaves will be directed towards the listener. And some will also be absorbed by the couch, which might not be such a bad thing since it might reduce significantly the floor table reflections, which might not be a bad thing at all. Again, at this point, we don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beave View Post
    You seem to believe every review written online, no matter how fantastical. I don't.
    Not sure how you've reached this conclusion as he posted only 1 review here... Sounds like a strawman argument to me (logical fallacy).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beave View Post
    Anybody who believes that Sierra 1's "pushed back against the wall...and furniture in front of one speaker...drastically improved the sound" obviously doesn't know what good sound is.
    Your logic is flawed. A person might know what 'good sound' is, yet prefer something else. If you've ever experimented with speaker placement, you probably know that it's mostly compromise. There's no perfect placement, as you move things around, some part of the sound improves while others worsen. The best clarity and detail is nearfield listening in the center of the room, but then the bass response & other aspects might suffer. For one listener though it could be ideal, yet for others might be horrendous.

    In a usual room, there's the main reflections; for left speaker say, the sound is reflected from the left wall and the sound is reflected from the right wall. These all make the sound 'more fuzzy' as the reflected sound arrives to the listener at different time. Now what happens if you stick some absorbent material on the right of left speaker, and you cut off the right wall reflection? You've just cut a main reflection point, so shouldn't the sound be clearer?

    For the above, maybe the couch isn't such a big deal. To know for sure, you'd have to measure with and without the couch. Or do you have a special technique to measure the effect of a couch via JPG image? How do you know for sure?
    Last edited by GirgleMirt; 12-29-2014 at 09:54 AM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Quote Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
    A couch like the one in the picture is basically fabric & foam with a wooden inner frame, so it will absorb quite a bit more than it will diffract. Just think of a room covered in sofas. The floor, walls, ceiling, etc. Then clap your hands. Do you think you would hear a lot of echo? No... It would act like an anechoic chamber. Maybe some frequencies would be reflected, but significantly given the position of the couch? I doubt it...
    It may absorb more than it will diffract, but surely we can agree it's not a perfect absorber, so it is diffracting. And it's absorbing/diffracting/reflecting different frequency ranges to different degrees. As for your clap echo suggestion, it's not really relevant. First, it only "tests" a certain frequency range; bass is almost entirely excluded in your clap. Second, I put the word "tests" in parentheses because unless you measure, you're just relying on your ears, not a good test device. Third, the placement of furniture in a room matters. A glass coffee table well off to the side will be less detrimental than one right in front of the listening position, no? Similarly, a couch on a side wall will be less detrimental than one partially blocking the speakers.

    As pictured, only the bottom woofer might have a chance to diffract. The tweeter and mid are far too high to have a significant impact. And again, the degree of impact is unknown. It's probably true that part of the soundwaves are diffracted by the couch, but it's definitely not 100% of the diffracted soundwaves will be directed towards the listener. And some will also be absorbed by the couch, which might not be such a bad thing since it might reduce significantly the floor table reflections, which might not be a bad thing at all. Again, at this point, we don't know.
    Dave has mentioned not wanting a front port due to diffraction on the front baffle, yet you think a couch is ok? Like I said, a couch on a sidewall, or behind a listener, can be helpful in reducing reflections from walls, but a couch that is in between the speakers and significantly impacting off-axis sound radiation just as the waves leave the speaker??


    Not sure how you've reached this conclusion as he posted only 1 review here... Sounds like a strawman argument to me (logical fallacy).
    Obviously you haven't read many of his posts. Numerous times has has referred to an internet review of a piece of gear as if it were factual, no matter how specious the claims made within.


    Your logic is flawed. A person might know what 'good sound' is, yet prefer something else. If you've ever experimented with speaker placement, you probably know that it's mostly compromise. There's no perfect placement, as you move things around, some part of the sound improves while others worsen. The best clarity and detail is nearfield listening in the center of the room, but then the bass response & other aspects might suffer. For one listener though it could be ideal, yet for others might be horrendous.
    My logic is fine. His statement implied not just that the sound was preferred, but that it was somehow better. That is what I took issue with.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Quote Originally Posted by wilcat_2000 View Post
    I have a hunch that if I moved the couch, the speakers would end up getting moved too...into my new bedroom...in the trailer...down by the river...

    the system actually sounds quite amazing in its current position...the towers are about 14.5 inches in from the rear wall and just over 32 inches in from each side wall - very nice and balanced sound, top to bottom, with no real dips or peaks that stand out (don't have any of that room eq stuff with this basic 2 channel stereo - it just sounds great...unless you're sitting on the couch between the speakers )...and the front plane of the speakers is ahead of anything that might directly absorb/reflect their output (except that darned table lamp to the right...I did try moving that out of the way back in 2011...I found the lamp replaced back in the same position the next day...and it wasn't until later in the week that I was able to find my newly-missing dac...in the furnace room...behind some boxes of Christmas decorations)...

    so...quite, quite, quite happy with things as they are (though may try for the single size chair in espresso brown leather when the time comes)....
    Very happy to hear that you are enjoying the towers. They look great in your room!

    Don't worry about the couch, it is far less destructive to performance then a big screen TV would be when placed directly between the speakers. From the picture, it does not appear that the couch is in the way of the critical shorter wavelengths - which are more directional.

    In addition, one of my old mentors used to insist on placing absorption directly between the speakers to help minimize wave interference between the two speakers.

    Everyone has different opinions as to what is right or what sounds best and the reasons why. Just enjoy!
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Do I have enough power?

    Bah! You're too nice Dave!

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