Finally! Thoughts on new towers

[loonytunes]

Thanks curtis.

I asked around on another forum, the best I can tell you as far as wpc is a 1.1-1.8 ratio. So 140/1.1 etc. This puts you at 78-127 wpc. In surround not all channels will be driven at the same time all the time. I would say figure conservatively, 80wpc.
If I remember correctly, Daves' comment on the JL had to do with watts/efficiency of the sub, not its overall quality. The JL has a higher mass driver requiring more power. I'm sure the JL will sound good, but given room size, dual subs will likely be the route you need to go. Correct placement will make a big difference as well.

[Audiolover458]

Exactly, and given the size and layout of his room, I suspect this is where his original concerns stemmed from.

That is correct, my room size is practically the whole first floor and all this open air to the 2nd floor. My sitting distance is about 14 feet from the speakers. They will be about 8 feet apart around my Sharp 80 Inch TV. My Infinity's looked like they could play plenty loud but i thought after about 15 DB on the dial it was more noise than sound, if you know what I mean and it hurt the ears within minutes. When we played the 340's at harro's theatre I did not feel any such thing and we were playing at 0 DB.

I will definitely try them with just the receiver first. BTW the JL F113 is half way home :-) :-). Arrival date 5/21..

[Audiolover458]

Thanks curtis.

I asked around on another forum, the best I can tell you as far as wpc is a 1.1-1.8 ratio. So 140/1.1 etc. This puts you at 78-127 wpc. In surround not all channels will be driven at the same time all the time. I would say figure conservatively, 80wpc.
If I remember correctly, Daves' comment on the JL had to do with watts/efficiency of the sub, not its overall quality. The JL has a higher mass driver requiring more power. I'm sure the JL will sound good, but given room size, dual subs will likely be the route you need to go. Correct placement will make a big difference as well.

I know that Professional Reviews can be biased but the JL has outstanding reviews for keeping up with any music. Also unless Dave somehow knew how efficient the JL is because I cannot find the 89db he mentioned it could be awesome. Maybe someone can look at its specs on the JL Website and help me decipher it. It is 1IN MDF with dual donut reinforced cabinet and all kinds of room correction ARO stuff. Maybe in a couple of years I would get a 2nd F113. I know a guy who is selling TWO F212s and buying 4 Gothams from JL so yes theoretically there is no such thing as too much base ONLY what you can AFFORD LOL.

[davef]

Also unless Dave somehow knew how efficient the JL is because I cannot find the 89db he mentioned it could be awesome. Maybe someone can look at its specs on the JL Website and help me decipher it.

I think you might have misunderstood me. The actual efficiency of a subwoofer "woofer" is a specification very few manufacturers would actually share. However, for someone with even medium knowledge of subwoofer design, it is rather a simple process to determine, as it is simple physics. There is no "magic" to subwoofer design, it's math. To deliver deep bass in a sealed cabinet as small as the JL, a woofer as large as the JL's must have very high mass. The higher the mass, the lower the efficiency...

It is not a knock on JL, they have NO CHOICE but to use such a heavy mass cone (and a large amount of EQ) -- otherwise the sub would never deliver anywhere near its rated -1.5dB at 20Hz. I had only mentioned this so as to not use "wattage" as any type of indication of output level or performance, as it is a meaningless spec without other information. If, for example, JL posted the actual continuous power of the subwoofer amp (as opposed to peak) and also posted what the woofer efficiency actually was, that impressive 2500 watt specification, which looks great for marketing purposes, would no longer look so impressive.

Again, not a knock on JL -- just general but important information consumers should be aware of...

[Audiolover458]

Hi Dave, Thank you for that education. I was wondering how that information was derived and your explanation makes perfect sense. It did make me think once when I read that language that said 2500 Peak Short Term. So what do you think it is in your estimation for Continuous - closer to 600 watts?

[davef]

Hi Dave, Thank you for that education. I was wondering how that information was derived and your explanation makes perfect sense. It did make me think once when I read that language that said 2500 Peak Short Term. So what do you think it is in your estimation for Continuous - closer to 600 watts?

While not exact, as I do not know how "peak" wattage is determined at JL, but based on root mean square calculations (RMS), simply multiply 2500 x .707 to determine RMS wattage from peak wattage. In this case, I would estimate RMS (continuous wattage) at 1767 watts.

[Audiolover458]

I think you might have misunderstood me. The actual efficiency of a subwoofer "woofer" is a specification very few manufacturers would actually share. However, for someone with even medium knowledge of subwoofer design, it is rather a simple process to determine, as it is simple physics. There is no "magic" to subwoofer design, it's math. To deliver deep bass in a sealed cabinet as small as the JL, a woofer as large as the JL's must have very high mass. The higher the mass, the lower the efficiency...

It is not a knock on JL, they have NO CHOICE but to use such a heavy mass cone (and a large amount of EQ) -- otherwise the sub would never deliver anywhere near its rated -1.5dB at 20Hz. I had only mentioned this so as to not use "wattage" as any type of indication of output level or performance, as it is a meaningless spec without other information. If, for example, JL posted the actual continuous power of the subwoofer amp (as opposed to peak) and also posted what the woofer efficiency actually was, that impressive 2500 watt specification, which looks great for marketing purposes, would no longer look so impressive.

Again, not a knock on JL -- just general but important information consumers should be aware of...

Thanks Dave, I sent them an email asking for that information as a potential buyer :-). We'll see if they answer it.

[Harro]

That is correct, my room size is practically the whole first floor and all this open air to the 2nd floor. My sitting distance is about 14 feet from the speakers. They will be about 8 feet apart around my Sharp 80 Inch TV. My Infinity's looked like they could play plenty loud but i thought after about 15 DB on the dial it was more noise than sound, if you know what I mean and it hurt the ears within minutes. When we played the 340's at harro's theatre I did not feel any such thing and we were playing at 0 DB.

I will definitely try them with just the receiver first. BTW the JL F113 is half way home :-) :-). Arrival date 5/21..

With your Onkyo and the towers coming your way, I do believe you will have a hard time pulling yourself away from listening to them. And in fact I think you will be finding yourself turning the volume up just because it is so clear, precise and you can't help yourself but want it louder and louder until your whole house is filled with good clean sound.
Now lets everybody Dance.

[Audiolover458]

With your Onkyo and the towers coming your way, I do believe you will have a hard time pulling yourself away from listening to them. And in fact I think you will be finding yourself turning the volume up just because it is so clear, precise and you can't help yourself but want it louder and louder until your whole house is filled with good clean sound.
Now lets everybody Dance.

ALAS, it is 6 weeks away so I am hoping I get it BEFORE July4th Weekend so I can have a blast playing with it all weekend. The JL is on the Truck for delivery today per the FedEx Notification but it is almost 6p.m. But it is not as effective without front speakers that actually work as opposed to the ones that simply make a noise because the Mids are not playing due to the torn rubber surrounds.

I may have to get some tips from you on how to calibrate them to my room.

[loonytunes]

In reference to the db reading, -15 is roughly 15 db below reference volume. 0 db being reference volume. This is not exact but thats the jist of it.