Are Ascends ugly or is it just me?

**curtis** · 08-28-2004, 05:32 PM

I don't think the goal of the Ascend speakers is to win a beauty contest. That said, there are people that think the CMT-340 on the custom stands is a good looking speaker....folks on the Axiom board that I participate on have mentioned it as well.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Personally, I like the custom finish that Ascend offers versus real wood or wood veneers. They're modern, clean-looking, and unique to Ascend. However, when they double the cost of the product, it's not a realistic option.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you like the custom painted finish, then calling them ugly no longer applies for you. The custom painted finish does not double the cost of the speaker. A recent potential customer compared the CBM-170 to the Rocket RS250 in his own home......$328pr vs $699pr. So even if it did double the costs...they are still comparable.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Can an American product offer both performance and an attractive packaging? Absolutely. Look at the success of Harley Davidson.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You didn't say anything about the cost of that Harley. A Harley is not inexpensive, and does not offer you performance at a "budget". Many people will argue with on whether a Harley is a perfomance machine.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">To put this issue into focus, if you look at all the other direct-to-consumer, online speaker retailers (av123, aperion, theaudioinsider, axiomaudio), their speakers make an attempt at having a quality looking, attractive finish. Now wood veneers may not get everyone excited but at least they try and address this aesthetic issue.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
First, Axioms does not use wood veneers, and none of those manufacturers have garnered nearly the accolades from a single speaker as Ascend has. IMO, the competition needs the aesthetics to compete. If/when Ascend offers a wood veneer, I think things will be very interesting.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Now wood veneers may not get everyone excited but at least they try and address this aesthetic issue.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I believe Ascend has made an attempt as well with the custom painted finishes. I have been told by a cabinet maker that it is tougher to paint a cabinet than it is to veneer. I also believe for Ascend to offer a wood veneered finish on the CBM-170 and CMT-340 would mean a slight change to the radiused edges, those edges are difficult to veneer.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">All of these arguments seem like easy outs to addressing the issue which is can Ascend be competitive in offering both high-end audio performance and attractive packaging like their competitors.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Very true, and it is also something competitors attempt to use for marketing against Ascend before anyone even hears them. An argument for Ascends could be the use of higher quality components at the expense of a non-wood veneer finish. Looking at component costs, I also think Ascend has a lower mark-up. Ascend also seems to sell plenty of these "ugly" speakers....which says something about how ugly people think they really are, or how good they really sound...take your pick.

I agree, a wood veneer would be a nice option. At the current costs for the CBM-170 and CMT-340, IMO, they sound better than the competition mentioned at a lower cost. The question is would a wood veneer finish still give Ascend a cost advantage? If it happens, I think so.

The value of Ascends is already competitive, if not shocking. You wanna know what my "easy out" is? My speakers sound better...that's why I bought them. [

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-curtis

**Eddie Horton** · 08-28-2004, 09:57 PM

I was quoted earlier saying that my speakers would eventually be going into a theater, and how if they needed to be extensions of my furniture that I may have gone a different route. That is true, but I still don't see how you can call a cleanly finished speaker ugly simply because it is finished in black. Black speakers have been around forever, but it's only when getting compared to other internet speakers with wood veneers that the ugly word comes out when describing Ascends. A wood veneer finish is not the end all be all in beauty. I think my Ascends are good looking, and I wouldn't change a thing.

**Lou-the-dog** · 08-28-2004, 11:15 PM

I am impressed with the fit and finish of my Ascends. Yeah, I know, black finish is standard but what is wrong with that? I believe it was Henry Ford that proclaimed that you could order your new Model T in any color you want...as long as it was black! Competing car-makers of the era dressed their offerings in colored paint, fine fabrics and leathers but were hard pressed to produce a vehicle that performed as well and was as affordable as Ford's. I believe Dave F. desire is to produce a high performance speaker at at a price attractive to as many consumers as possible. If down the road it gets wrapped in veneer or paint then that'll be great too but I think we'll all know that solid engineering went in first before the glitter was applied to the outside.

Randy

**metalaaron** · 08-29-2004, 01:21 AM

"Personally, I like the custom finish that Ascend offers versus real wood or wood veneers. They're modern, clean-looking, and unique to Ascend. However, when they double the cost of the product, it's not a realistic option."
they're not increasing the cost of the product. the finish is!
go to www.theaudioinsider.com and look at the price differences of their rosewood vs. faux vinyl.

they're not trying to solely address an aesthetic issue. the aesthetics of the rockets are a large % of their marketing tactics. there is one thread in particular where someone clearly chose rockets over ascends simply because of the looks. americans are materialistic and mr. schifter knows this. he's a smart businessman.

i've had all three in home. i have to take several points off axioms for the way they did the edges of the speakers. you would only know if you saw them close up. my friend saw the rockets. he said they definitely catch your eye at first. he said "wow" at first, but he didn't like the looks after staying over for a while. to each his / her own.

i, personally, hope that ascend keeps the black color in their finish forever. maybe in the future they could look at doing gloss over finishes like NHT speakers. i'd stay away from wood veneers because it would probably just cause more apples to oranges.

shouldn't we be looking at the display during movies???!!!

i'd be scared to death to see what David F. could bring to market at a $999 price point.

**curtis** · 08-29-2004, 01:34 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">i'd be scared to death to see what David F. could bring to market at a $999 price point.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I can think of people that would be even more scared. [

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-curtis

**bikeman** · 08-29-2004, 02:11 AM

"americans are materialistic and mr. schifter knows this. he's a smart businessman.

"

Ain't that the truth. He has a dedicated full time sales force that pays HIM for the privledge of using his products. The AV123 Forum reminds me of an Amway convention. I mean that in a positive sense. Mark is an amazing person. It is rare to find someone that good at so many things. Production, marketing, sales, marriage, etc

i'd be scared to death to see what David F. could bring to market at a $999 price point.

I'm sure it's already in the pipeline. I hope I can avoid "upgraditus" when the 680's are announced. [

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David

**haveaniceday** · 08-29-2004, 02:14 AM

Wow. So Americans are materialistic....

Well, that's an interesting, broad characterization. I guess I shouldn't be inviting you over for the next Fourth of July picnic...

"...maybe in the future they could look at doing gloss over finishes like NHT speakers..."

Seems like even you have hopes of a better finish in the future.

People need to stop knocking other competitors' speakers for the sake of justifying Ascend's basic black finish. Just on performance comparisons, there are plenty of pro and consumer reviews that consider these other speakers on par or better than Ascends. This simply reflects personal preference in audio characteristics. It also makes it clear that, in regards to sound quality, all of these speakers are hi quality speakers.

Curtis - can you provide a liink to the comparison between the CBM-170 to the Rocket RS250? I would be interested in reading that. Also, can you give a comparison of the component quality between Ascends and their online competiors'? My understanding is that they all use hi-quality components.

Unfortunately, the Ascend custom finishes are going up in price and will more than likely double the cost of the speaker.

Let's keep the discussion focused on the original issue - can Ascend offer a hi-quality speaker that competes on BOTH performance and aesthetics like their competitors? Perhaps the suggestions and opinions made here can give the Ascend leadership ideas on how to address these issues.

This topic wasn't posted with the intent to create a "who's right or who's better" debate but to begin a "positive" discussin on a valid Ascend issue.

**curtis** · 08-29-2004, 02:57 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Curtis - can you provide a liink to the comparison between the CBM-170 to the Rocket RS250?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
http://www.ascendforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=193

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Also, can you give a comparison of the component quality between Ascends and their online competiors'?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
All that information is on the net in various forms. On top of that, it is the engineering that goes in to putting them all together.[

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">can Ascend offer a hi-quality speaker that competes on BOTH performance and aesthetics like their competitors?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Once again, those are two very subjective issues, and how do you apply weighting to each? The speakers as they are now are ALREADY competitive.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This topic wasn't posted with the intent to create a "who's right or who's better" debate but to begin a "positive" discussin on a valid Ascend issue.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The offering of a veneer finish is a valid issue. What else are you hoping to gain from the discussion? The title of your initial post is not a "positive" one.

Other posters have brought up some points that you have not addressed. You seem to think that the aesthetics are not for you by comparing to the other competitors, again very subjective. With that, you should include sound quality as well.....because the speakers not only look different, they also sound different.

-curtis

**curtis** · 08-29-2004, 03:10 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I hope I can avoid "upgraditus" when the 680's are announced.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
David...if you can do that, then you need to teach a class or write a book.

-curtis

**metalaaron** · 08-29-2004, 03:46 AM

did i run over your dog? really.
i don't understand your intent in this thread. it's coming across very troll-like, but i hope that is not the case. do you frequent other forums? (curious)

i don't have hopes on a 'better' finish. i DO hope that if ascend does decide to make a more custom finish that they keep it black. i don't find anything wrong with the finish on their current models. i like to WATCH the display and HEAR the sound. my home has a very contemporary look and the speakers just look right next to my black tv, black tv stand, black dvd player, black avr, black game console, black poster frames, and black candle holders. look at the galleries on www.avsforum.com i'd wager that a high %age of the speakers in there are black or even hidden. black is a proven cabinet color choice and i really don't think it needs any criticism.

"People need to stop knocking other competitors' speakers for the sake of justifying Ascend's basic black finish."

no offense, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? you drew first blood.

let me clarify that my intent was not to criticize anyone's finish. i really like axiom's options for finish. you get a HOST of options. it also costs more for custom finishes on their product as well. my friend, who did not like the rocket finish, did not go on their forum and publicly post his thoughts. forums should be used as a tool and not as a battleground.

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