Pro Studio Monitors vs Ascend Speakers

[GirgleMirt]

The sound difference is definitely perceptible imho; mostly imaging & bass, and bit more clarity, but you do lose a bit of the neutrality of the 340s, and they require a bit more juice.. Do a search, quite a few topics on it!

[FirstReflect]

The path I would take if I were upgrading from the CMT-340SE (with matching Ascend Center and Surrounds) for in-home use would simply be to go for refinement. ANY deviation away from the original signal is technically a form of distortion. The CMT-340SE give you very accurate on and off-axis frequency response. Just in terms of frequency response, there isn't a huge amount of improvement to be had. But you can refine the sound further by improving upon other aspects of the sound. Transient response and inertial attack and decay would probably be the most notable areas.

If you look at something like the Ascend Sierra Towers with the RAAL ribbon tweeter, the accuracy of the on and off-axis frequency response is not wildly different or improved over the CMT-340SE. And this is one of the reasons why the "voicing" and timbre of the sound matches quite well across these different Ascend lines of speakers. Very similar on and off-axis frequency response does mean an overall similar sound.

But if you look at the spectral decay graphs, you'll see how rapidly the Sierra speakers dispense with any residual sound after the signal said to stop moving. Due to simple inertia, the SE series speakers continue to move a tiny bit and continue to emit a little bit of sound. If you go all the way up to the RAAL ribbon in the Sierra Towers, or if you look at the INSANE measurements Dave just posted for the Sierra-2 bookshelf speaker, you'll see that they basically stop on a dime! Those Sierra-2 measurements, by the way...I'm just in shock. I mean, the RAAL ribbon - it's unfair to say I expected it to measure that well, but there IS a precedent already set by the Towers' 70-20XR ribbon. It's the mid-woofer in the Sierra-2 that is so shocking! I don't think I've ever seen a traditional cone speaker driver with transient response like that! It's outdoing the Sierra Towers in some respects! Which...uh-oh...does this potentially mean another Sierra Tower upgrade in the future?



Anyways, that's the sort of thing you can expect to upgrade and refine in your speakers' sound. It's really not so much the frequency response at this point. It's not as though notes themselves are suddenly going to sound different. But it's the utter lack of ANY form of distortion that more expensive speaker with higher quality parts could offer you.

I will say to you, without customer bias, that finding a better value -- in terms of getting better performance per dollar spent -- would be EXTREMELY difficult vs. the Ascend Sierra Towers and Horizon. And against the Sierra-2 -- provided those measurements are accurate, and there's zero reason to believe they are not -- is completely unmatched for a bookshelf-sized speaker at any price from anybody. That thing is out of this world!

WITH customer bias, I feel that Ascend's Sierra Towers RAAL, Horizon RAAL, and the new Sierra-2 are genuinely the pinnacle of what's possible with modern engineering -- more or less at any price. About the only thing they can't do is fill a full-sized commercial movie theater with 105dB sound. But for home use, I've really, truly, not heard better. And I've listened to a lot of speakers!

But if you don't pay attention to value and price tags, there are most certainly other excellent, excellent speakers out there. The Revel Ultima speakers are a personal favourite. I love the sound of the Focal Electra Be and Utopia Be speakers. I'm a pretty big fan of Paradigm's Signature Series speakers. Wilson Audio has some utterly fabulous sounding speakers. For something a little bit different, but extremely compelling, I love the Magnepan sound.

But dollar-for-dollar? The Sierra Towers RAAL, Horizon RAAL, and I'm definitely assuming the Sierra-2, based on those posted measurements -- completely unmatched in sound quality. Take Ascend's prices and quadruple them. That's more in line with their competition

[Paddlefoot]

Sonicboom....having played drums for nearly 50 years, been in a lot of studio, the Yamaha monitors NS-10 were some of the worst sounding speaker you would ever hear...every single producer and engineer said the same thing in every studio I was in .....if you get your stuff to sound good on these...it will sound GREAT on everything else...they felt most people would hear your tune on a car radio of poor quality ....the NS-10 were the reference standard for that purpose...I can't imagine anyone enjoying those types of speaker for home use....just my 2 cents..I believe any of Dave's speakers will give you more enjoyment of your music in home. Greg

[Kisakuku]

But dollar-for-dollar? The Sierra Towers RAAL, Horizon RAAL, and I'm definitely assuming the Sierra-2, based on those posted measurements -- completely unmatched in sound quality. Take Ascend's prices and quadruple them. That's more in line with their competition

I'm all for Ascend-induced enthusiasm, but no matter how many times you post this, ID speakers that sound good and measure well at a comparable price point do not just cease to exist (Salk, Philharmonic, etc.).

[billy p]

I'm all for Ascend-induced enthusiasm, but no matter how many times you post this, ID speakers that sound good and measure well at a comparable price point do not just cease to exist (Salk, Philharmonic, etc.).

Meh..I don't see to many of those guys giving kudos or a tip o the hat to Ascends...as for Salk have you seen their prices... the sky, is the limit...although the workmanship is stunning. And yeah... DM designs like the Phils are not for everyone me included....although those newer slim Towers & monitors look very nice.

[curtis]

Meh..I don't see to many of those guys giving kudos or a tip o the hat to Ascends...as for Salk have you seen their prices... the sky, is the limit...although the workmanship is stunning. And yeah... DM designs like the Phils are not for everyone me included....although those newer slim Towers & monitors look very nice.

Also, they do not have the same OEM relationships and capabilities as Ascend. In particular, most, if not all, the drivers used by Salk and Phil are off the shelf. It can be argued that the component used in Ascends offer better synergy.

In my listening, the imaging with the Sierra Towers is simply superb compared to Songtowers, which I believe is due to the matching of drivers.

[davef]

I'm all for Ascend-induced enthusiasm, but no matter how many times you post this, ID speakers that sound good and measure well at a comparable price point do not just cease to exist (Salk, Philharmonic, etc.).

Agreed, both Salk and Phil (Dennis Murphy) also offer excellent products -- different companies, different design approaches but excellent products.

[davef]

Sonicboom....having played drums for nearly 50 years, been in a lot of studio, the Yamaha monitors NS-10 were some of the worst sounding speaker you would ever hear...every single producer and engineer said the same thing in every studio I was in .....if you get your stuff to sound good on these...it will sound GREAT on everything else...they felt most people would hear your tune on a car radio of poor quality ....the NS-10 were the reference standard for that purpose...I can't imagine anyone enjoying those types of speaker for home use....just my 2 cents..I believe any of Dave's speakers will give you more enjoyment of your music in home. Greg

I was a bit kinder in my comments regarding the NS-10, which was replaced by the HS-80 (the subject of this thread), but Greg certainly nailed it...

[Kisakuku]

Meh..I don't see to many of those guys giving kudos or a tip o the hat to Ascends...as for Salk have you seen their prices... the sky, is the limit...although the workmanship is stunning. And yeah... DM designs like the Phils are not for everyone me included....although those newer slim Towers & monitors look very nice.

Having met Jim Salk in person, I can say that he only had complimentary things to say about Ascend, just like Dave is always very respectful of other ID manufacturers. SongTowers +/- RAAL and Phil Slims are priced very similarly to Sierra Towers.

Also, they do not have the same OEM relationships and capabilities as Ascend. In particular, most, if not all, the drivers used by Salk and Phil are off the shelf. It can be argued that the component used in Ascends offer better synergy.

In my listening, the imaging with the Sierra Towers is simply superb compared to Songtowers, which I believe is due to the matching of drivers.

Those are all great points to be argued, but wholesale dismissal of other comparable ID speakers rubs me the wrong way.

[billy p]

Having met Jim Salk in person, I can say that he only had complimentary things to say about Ascend, just like Dave is always very respectful of other ID manufacturers. SongTowers +/- RAAL and Phil Slims are priced very similarly to Sierra Towers

No doubt JS is a class act....As for pure value factor being equal...I don't necessarily share your POV...because the ST +/- RAAL don't come standard in bamboo...its considered a premium option, likely several hundreds more...something to consider if you're a prospective buyer.

In the end, I prefer the Ascend business model.

Cheers, Bill