Achieving much better sound could be just one component away :)

[luisv]

More food for thought... I could be wrong, but most if not all, speaker manufactures do not use esoteric speaker wire to connect drivers to the crossovers within the cabinet. The appropriate gauge would be used, but not uber expensive cabling; therefore, wouldn't that be a weak link? Same with amps, pre-amps, etc. The electronic components that are not surface mounted or wire jumpers between circuit boards and such are usually not wired with esoteric cables, so again, another weak link.

[luisv]

Hehe well I used a similar technique as seen here with a DIY cabinet for the remains of a NrT upgrade.

Interesting idea to reuse those components. Cool!

With that much science behind it, how can it not improve sound?! Speakers definitely fit in the "if it's got CF it's better" category, so I couldn't not consider not going with Carbon fiber. These took literally hours to make, and dozens of minutes of internet research to design. Not your typical Ascend speaker! Also completely hand made, which makes it better, using high performance tools, such as a table saw, a router, a sander, and human hands. Although no blood was involved, there was definitely some blood sweat and tears involved... Ok no tears either.. But some sweat though probably got in there... Helps with imaging I'm told! Can get hot here...

Oh and the glue... High tech glue. High quality... Wood... Glue. I went with the good stuff, I went totally crazy, I think it was $2.49 instead of normal $1.99 wood glue... Brand name, shit, don't remember the brand... Should have written it down, as brand names helps performance. The superior quality glue helps to keep the sound tight and cohesive. Which is great for C.F. And it glued so well, much better than normal glue, you can easily hear the differences between glues. Oh and the MDF wood was personally selected by me. 1st sheet of the pile. Always the best! Some people don't go with the best. I do. Only hand selected MDF wood. It's high tech too, they didn't have that in medieval times... High tech MDF, hand crafted, selected, glued, with high tech and quality glue, CF'd, hand made, with sweat, amazing.

Here are my original impressions upon hearing the Carbon Fiber Sierras for the first time:


(the above is totally not ripped off!!) Just amazing what adding Carbon Fiber to Sierra will do for you.. Really amazing...! Those nuances..

Though I'm thinking of replacing it with a normal wood finish.. C.F. is supposed to come off really easily without leaving residue, so I think I'll eventually go this route.. I'm quite hesitant to lose all the CF benefits though...

lmao

[markie]

Ok, here's a thought from the dark side of my brain: You auditioned (3) different cables that had noticeably different sonic signatures, presumably at (3) different price points. BUT.......they are all from the same company. Consider this; If you could not differentiate the least expensive cable from the most expensive then how could the company justify the price difference? I believe that these companies selling multi-tiered products engineer these differences into the products so that there is an audible difference, justifying the price levels in the consumer's mind.

Ok, conspiracy theory rant over!

Good one, although it is not a conspiracy theory but a conspiracy fact, and not necessarily a dark fact. Some engineering differences may simply be more costly to implement.

Here's what a cable maker said in a post a few days ago.

I can design a cable to sound however you want it to.

from

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php...039#msg1420039

This is from a thread entitled "I now believe in high end cabling!" started a few days ago by non other than Big Red Machine, a well known common sense audio enthusiast.

Mark

[luisv]

What happens once the signal flows from the external speaker cable, to the speaker cabinet binding post? Unless the internal speaker wires and crossover connections are similar to the external cabling design, aren't the design elements of the esoteric cable nullified? For example, drop a lawn mower engine into a Ferrari, the car is still a Ferrari, but the engine nullifies the rest of the performance of the car. Wouldn't the same hold true with cabling if it's designed different externally and internally within the cabinet?

[markie]

What happens once the signal flows from the external speaker cable, to the speaker cabinet binding post? Unless the internal speaker wires and crossover connections are similar to the external cabling design, aren't the design elements of the esoteric cable nullified? For example, drop a lawn mower engine into a Ferrari, the car is still a Ferrari, but the engine nullifies the rest of the performance of the car. Wouldn't the same hold true with cabling if it's designed different externally and internally within the cabinet?

Good point luisv. My thinking is that distortions introduced throughout the audio chain have their unique signatures, and the distortions are additive. So rather than a more major source of distortion nullifying lesser distortions, they just add up. The brain/mind becomes comfortable and familiar with a distortion 'baseline', and when, say, a new external cable replaces another one, old distortions are removed and new distortions introduced and the brain/mind can discern the difference from its accustomed baseline.

Some people have been so fond of a certain cable that they have asked that their custom speaker manufacturer to use the same cabling inside the speaker, even though it may cost a substantial penny. Of a certainty: different people have different cost/benefit priorities!

Mark

[GirgleMirt]

Wouldn't the same hold true with cabling if it's designed different externally and internally within the cabinet?

It's funny that I'm so often reminded of religion when thinking about audio topics lol In this case, it's the exact same thing as with religion... You're not supposed to ask or even think about these questions. As soon as you do, the whole concepts fall apart and belief becomes impossible, and you're forever excluded from these circles.

Like power cables and the internal wiring of the house... Magic stones sitting on top of amp... Magic feet below amps or cd players... High end digital cables, etc... You have one group who have never questioned anything about their beliefs, and another that did, and because of that, can no longer hold those beliefs... You just have to have faith dude, don't ask how/why it works, just accept that it does, and revel in your beliefs!

One thing I've noticed about charlatans, is that they always frown and are unhappy with an inquisitive mind. Be it again religion, supernatural, fraudulent products, when you have something which has sound theory behind, the advocate will be happy to share the why and how. But if you ask a question about the how/why and you get frowns & some BS answer, dodging, or "don't question!" type answer, you can be nearly certain that it's BS.

Take Ascend and it's products, they give nearly all the relevant information; specs, measurements, how/why components are designed/selected, what they do, how they work, etc. And if you ask a question, Dave is transparent & happy to answer, and willingly explains & share information. Ask a snake oil vendor relevant questions, and likely he'll shrivel up, won't give an answer and probably attack your credibility. And the saddest part is that if fanboys are present, they'll likely do the same.

Anyway... Rambling... But to believe, you must not question. Questioning is the 1st step towards becoming a heathen. So instead of asking questions about something, you should seriously ask yourself if you want to believe or not.

[markie]

We all believe; it is a question of what we believe.

I believe that authority and dogma should be questioned, whether it concerns religion or science or what have you. Truth is not averse to honest examination.

A main problem with our species is that when we acquire a little bit of truth, get fairly expert in a thing or two, in our vanity we think we have it all figured out and proceed to rest comfortably in our little constrained domain. It may be a personal domain or a shared, social domain. Who among us is immune?

In my youth thought I had it all figured out in my religion. Then I questioned it, and the rest is history that I won't get into.

The Wright brothers developed a flying machine in the face of a skeptical academia and media. Yet in a twist of irony one of the brothers would later say, I think in the 1930s, that airplanes had exhausted their potential.

Einstein developed the Theory of Special Relativity and a time when academia had thought the universe was more or less entirely explained. Yet Einstein would later say, I think in the 1940s, that it was unlikely that we could harness the power of atomic fission.

In 1989 Pons and Fleischmann announced Cold Fusion, something that academia thought impossible at such low temperatures. They were shamed out of the county and came to live in Europe. To this very day academia and the main stream media won't touch the subject. Yet within our lifetimes it will become commonplace, a given.

So yeah, question dogma and authority. Much of what we hold up as infallible truth will fail the test of time.

Mark

[GirgleMirt]

Much of what we hold up as infallible truth will fail the test of time.

Will? And how exactly do you know that? And what do you mean exactly, like one day, apples will fall upwards? Otherwise I generally agree with you! The main difference though with the Wright Brothers, Einstein, etc., is that if you queried them on their theories & beliefs, they would not shy away to give you a genuine honest explanation, even if it would probably go over our head... And there lies the difference between someone honestly trying to improve or expand a field, rather than try to pawn off some supernatural bs for profits...

It's the same with DBTs, again going back with Ascend, they have measurements of all of their products. Therefore, you can see the difference. You know it's real, you know it exists. Cable charlatans don't usually want their customers to be educated customers, otherwise they wouldn't be their customers... So unlike ethical individuals/companies, their aim is misinformation, and they benefit from their customer's ignorance. They're not interested in the truth; they don't want people doing DBTs to evaluate their products, they just want dumb stupid ignorant customers to buy their shit.

To be fair to the last cable question, say the cable was broken by design and it's goal was to attenuate the highs... Which is dumb, but whatever... Adding the same cabling inside the speaker would attenuate them more, which might be good or bad... If the cable supposedly keep those magical elves and gremlins from affecting the signal, since there's no elves and gremlins affecting the signal, using it in the cabinet wouldn't make any difference.

Anyway, I think it's clear that paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for a cables acting as a static EQ isn't the smartest idea. Same for supernatural unexplainable voodoo shielding. So when asking whether the connector/inside wiring makes a difference as it's not the 'magical' cable, it's a bit counterproductive, as pretty much conceding or assuming that the cable in itself is beneficial, and that's the real contention, whether it actually does anything better than a 2$ RCA cable or your normal copper cable. If it's EQing, then it's a broken cable and is worse. If it's voodoo shielding, it doesn't do anything better.

When buying/shopping for a cable, you should know exactly what it's supposed to do, and IMHO it should be demonstrated to do what it is supposed to do. That pretty much means it should be validated through DBTs. IMHO. It's funny that the audio community in general doesn't embrace the concept of DBTs. Well funny... Not really funny, more like borderline moronic, but you get what I mean Talk about embracing ignorance and not caring about reality!

[luisv]

Good point luisv. My thinking is that distortions introduced throughout the audio chain have their unique signatures, and the distortions are additive. So rather than a more major source of distortion nullifying lesser distortions, they just add up. The brain/mind becomes comfortable and familiar with a distortion 'baseline', and when, say, a new external cable replaces another one, old distortions are removed and new distortions introduced and the brain/mind can discern the difference from its accustomed baseline.

Some people have been so fond of a certain cable that they have asked that their custom speaker manufacturer to use the same cabling inside the speaker, even though it may cost a substantial penny. Of a certainty: different people have different cost/benefit priorities!

Mark

I understand your logic, but wouldn't the same hold true for any wire based part in the signal path? Crossover parts as well as voice coils? I would assume that most speaker manufacturers would not allow nor approve any customization of their product and I would assume that most wouldn't even entertain a discussion about using my cables of choice within their designs instead of their own. Maybe a smaller shop would be open to it, but I bet that most would not be as that would be a support nightmare and varied sonic signatures from the speakers themselves as I like brand X and you might like brand Y cable.

But wait, never mind the signal path within our home audio systems, let's take a step back. What about within the record producers studio system? Are we hearing distortion from their associated equipment if they use different or inferior cables from our own system? They are the individuals that produced the sonic vision of the recording itself, so who would be correct? The mic cords, the amp cables, etc etc. Who's right? Their sound signature based on their cables or ours if we use a different product? Are we adding or subtracting from their vision as to how a recording should indeed sound like?

I dunno, but all of this voodoo certainly doesn't make any sense to me. All I can tell you is that based on a recommendation I originally purchased Kimber Cable 8TC speaker cable for my B&Ws and it set me back a ton of cash. Fast forward a few years, and yes, by this time everything was well broken-in, I started to want more from my system. Within the same room and using the same components, I decided to experiment with speaker placement and distance; however, the 8TC wasn't long enough for me to widen the distance that much more between the speakers so I ran out to my garage and grabbed some 14 gauge speaker wire that I had left over from my a car stereo system installation. I figured it would sound worse, but it would at least allow me to experiment without breaking the bank. At first I was in total disbelief. Then I placed the speakers back into the carpet indentations from the spikes of the Sound Anchors that are attached to my B&Ws. Guess what... drum roll please... no sonic difference between the 14 gauge cable and the urber expensive Kimber Cable. And no, it wasn't any special twisted air gaped cryogenic ultra virgin type copper with silver soldered tips... it was plain jane speaker cable with grime and dust from the bowels of my garage. I continued to listen, asked the wife to join me, did some cable swaps within the same speaker locations and we both came to the same conclusion... zip, zilch, nada, zero difference between cables. So lesson learned, I sold the 8TC, picked up some Canare cable from Bluejeans and used the rest to take the wife out shopping of which it made her very happy and I in turn... well... was also happy too.

[markie]

To luisv, on the whole record companies could probably do a better job by using better techniques and equipment. Afterall why else do some recordings sound like crap. Cable choices in the studio would represent only a relatively very small part in that, but it is still a part. It's additive.

I love it that you had the curiousity to actually experiment with your cables. You found no difference, which is great. More money to you. Other people with other systems find not so subtle differences, which I also accept.

To GM, I agree that using cables as a way to equalize isn't the best. Personally, changing cables would be the last thing I would try to tweak a system. Some people go through cable after cable, unsatisfied, until they stumble upon one that does the trick for some reason. I accept that, even without a DBT

Mark