Can't make a decision to save my life........

[RRT-NPS]

I've owned Sierra-1s before and they played plenty deep for me.

[FirstReflect]

I am not a fan of subwoofers. I find the bass to be artificial sounding and exagerated. It's boomy, which is probably due to the room more so than the sub. Also, it is another cable to have to deal with and hide.

Yes, indeed. If that is how you feel about subwoofers, then you have, unfortunately, simply not had the experience of hearing a pair (or quad) subwoofers ideally positioned and set up properly in a system. I really wish you could hear how it sounds in my theatre. The very last thing the bass sounds like in my room is artificial, exaggerated, or boomy. It is smooth, clean, tight, and just effortlessly extended. But, as I've droned on about above, it's not even just the extension and quality. It's the fact that if I were to play the bass through just my (very capable) custom Sierra Horizon RAAL Front speakers, the speakers themselves can play nice and linearly and accurately down to 40Hz, but that is not how they end up sounding in the room. In the prime seat, the Front Mains have a pretty big 50Hz hump, while the Centre has a huge 70Hz dip. And sitting to either side, the Front Mains have fluctuating bass below 60Hz, and the Centre still has a suck out centered at 70Hz.

So, in my case, playing bass through my speakers is what sounds uneven, and in the case of my Front Main speakers while seated in the prime seat, boomy at 50Hz. Meanwhile, letting my pair of ideally placed subwoofers take over at crossover frequencies above where the speakers start to have uneven bass issues that are due to room acoustics effects related to where they are positioned in the room relative to the seats, that results in smooth, linear, accurate bass all the way down to below 20Hz, and it sounds uniform and even at all 3 seating positions.

Subwoofers definitely CAN sound boomy and artificial. You're not wrong. And I'm sure we've all experienced that at some point! I certainly have. But it's too broad to say you just don't like subwoofers. That's like saying you don't like dogs because you've only met two, and one tried to hump your leg, and the other one bit you I mean, if those had been your only experiences with dogs, it would make perfect sense that you wouldn't like them! But it wouldn't be fair to swear off all dogs completely. If you met a really well trained dog, you'd see how awesome they can be! So, same thing with subs

Your point about extra wires and the hassle of placing them in the room is certainly a valid concern, though. There are some wireless subs out there, and wireless adapter add-ons available, too. But you still need a power cord for each sub, so it's never truly wireless.

Anyways, I'd urge you not to swear off subwoofers entirely. That's no way to live. haha. You'd be depriving yourself of such wonderful bass possibilities! But I totally understand if placement and wires are hassles you don't want to deal with. It can be totally worth it, though

[RRT-NPS]

I am a fan of subwoofers in home theater just not for 2 channel music. This might sound odd since I am always concerned with the bass a speaker is capable of producing. When I want to see if a speaker will work for me, I have to hear how Sade's No Ordinary Love sounds on it. I still get a bit of a chubby recalling the first time I heard a 5" Scanspeak Revelator driver. To this day it is VERY hard for me to not just buy a speaker with revelators and call it a day. However, I have learned (around here) that a speaker is more than just a driver.

[petmotel]

I am not a fan of subwoofers. I find the bass to be artificial sounding and exagerated. It's boomy, which is probably due to the room more so than the sub. Also, it is another cable to have to deal with and hide.

Well this was a thread originated by yourself, your needs are the ones that matter in this thread. For a music only, stereo system in a multi-use environment without a sub, even though the Towers with the RAAL tweeters are the most expensive speaker Ascend produces, it's important to remember what an amazing value these speakers truly are. Value aside, they are exceptional performers, and will likely fulfill your needs, and keep you grinning for a very long time to come.

Ascend, as most of us here are well aware, uses a different business model than the norm in speaker manufacturing. I doubt that you can find another speaker product with the component cost/asking price ratio as absurdly high as their products.

Seems like discussions concerning speakers often end up with the discussion turning to subs. Bass response can be optimized by various means, often times there is more latitude in a stereo system for things such as speaker placement, and prime listener location. Additionally, placement of natural diffusors like bookshelves, and natural sound absorption like rugs, furniture, wall hangings, and drapes, and a good room correction system can achieve very good results.

Jay

[billy p]

What's worse...I ask? Not being able to make a decision or the constant wavering to upgrade what you already have. Sometimes its better to go about it and not leave any doubt. Yup that's what I would do but I'm in a good place with my current setup...fwiw...less of course the sub since its currently missing from my system now!

[RRT-NPS]

Well, my decision has been made and my order placed. I just got off the phone with Dina. I purchased Sierra Towers in Black Bamboo with RAAL tweeters. Looking forward to an early December delivery.
Thanks for all the advice.

[FirstReflect]

Woo! Congrats!

I'm happy for you that you went for it. You will be VERY happy with the Sierra Towers RAAL. Do they cost a bit extra? Sure. But, oh, once you hear them...you'll have zero doubts about where that money went, or whether it was worth the extra few hundreds. The Towers RAAL are worth every single penny, plus many, many more on top of that!

The Sierra-2 ought to be wholesaling for $2700/pair. The Towers RAAL ought to wholesale for $4300/pair at least. Instead, Dave sells them customer direct for $1448/pair and $2598/pair, respectively. If we were buying them at a retail store, we'd be paying at least double the wholesale prices that I've estimated! So Ascend's consumer direct prices are, like, just a little over 1/4 of industry standard pricing on speakers that use components of this quality. And you can't even get Ascend's custom drivers in any other speakers, so they're even more of a steal.

Anywho, major congrats on making a decision! It's a GREAT decision, and I am extremely confident that you will have zero regrets about it once your speakers arrive and you get to hear them in person!

[DevL]

Well, my decision has been made and my order placed. I just got off the phone with Dina. I purchased Sierra Towers in Black Bamboo with RAAL tweeters. Looking forward to an early December delivery.
Thanks for all the advice.

I have those EXACT same speakers (Satin Black Towers with RAAL). I also consider this to be my last set of mains I will purchase. I also have a Rythmik F15HP sub and there is no way Id give up my sub for music. No way I'd want a vented sub either, less transient response, more phase shift, etc. My sub is already too loud as is and has to be turned down for Audessy to even do its thing, so a port is pointless IMO. Have you ever heard a well tuned sealed sub? From your description it seems the answer is no. The bass from my sub is far more natural than the bass from the tower... or any speaker.

You WILL be lacking smooth bass response seat to seat getting any pair of towers... or other speaker for that matter. I fully intend to get a second F15HP to even out the possible listening positions in my room. You can not do that with a pair of towers or even a single sub.

I do not feel getting a pair of towers and fully lacking deep bass is in any way a real viable long term solution or more realistic sounding. Once you hear QUALITY bass you will think its as big a revaluation as the RAAL is for the high end. My only recommendation would be to look at 2 F15 as the F15HP excursion and amp power is wasted IMO if you like linear bass response and a pair of F15s is plenty if you don't live in the Taj Mahal.

Oh... and if you feel the RAAL is meh on arrival... pull the grill covers and turn off the A/C fan. Amazing detail I have not heard elsewhere.

[pierreterrier]

RRT-NPS, you made the ultimate choice with your purchase and I totally agree with your assessment about subs in stereo music only applications. Rest assured that if you have the proper acoustic set up in your room you will not need any sub for your stereo enjoyment at all. I have the sierra towers with raals and even so I have a sub I never turn it on when listening to stereo music because the towers have all the bass I ever want and the quality of it is astonishing and that's no bull. For movies on my 5.1 system the sub is always on, for music on my 2.1 stereo system, never.

[billy p]

Yup...looking back that's what I should have done. I'll likely not return the Towers like I did the STC for the move up to RAAL. As for the Towers...well I'm not a huge bass head and they do rather well..thanks...BUT...having been without my sub for about 2 weeks now...I really do miss it for music listening...YMMV.