You Guys Wanna Hear About Some Custom Speakers?

[petmotel]

Holy woofers and tweeters, Batman! Fiddlesticks and kettle drums, what on earth is this barrel of monkeys?

That is one of the most awesome things I've ever seen. Sheesh, and I thought my 7.1 setup was cramped.

I expected outlandish, but this is just another level entirely.

I've got only one more thing to say: I want a demo!!

I think the airplane crash scene from Flight of the Phoenix would sound epic on that system. Cloverfield might be a bit of fun too! A good concert Blu-Ray like John Mayer or Dave Mathews & Tim Reynolds would also be cool.

Please post what you have played and what it sounds like!

Jay

[eliwankenobi]

Attachment 907

WOW!!

Rob, thats the most amazing array of speakers I've seen on a home theater! Great Job!!

I do agree with the previous comments, those two chairs there look kinda sad... That space screams comfy couch!

Are you finished with calibration? Would like to hear more comments on your setup, like what speakers are powered by the ATI amp( weird for me, I think ATI and video cards come to mind)? Distance from screen, etc and of course how does it sound!!!!

I hope you enjoy your system for many many years!!

[FirstReflect]

Haha....I'm a bit speechless...I'm not even sure if it's for real...

Oh, it's real. I assure you. I have the $20,000 hole in my savings account to prove it

Awesome Rob! only thing I see that's ridiculous are those two chairs. Minimum requirements there are at least a recliner or two.

Jay

Thanks! Everyone hates my poor chairs

haha

They're actually really comfortable, but they ARE temporary. I can't fit more than a love seat, unless I want to climb over the back of a couch to get into it - lol. I have expensive taste, though. So I've gotta save up a bit. I've been so disappointed with most home theater recliners. I think I'll either have to go Ekornes or Elite HTS. Both are pricey.

Holy woofers and tweeters, Batman! Fiddlesticks and kettle drums, what on earth is this barrel of monkeys?

That is one of the most awesome things I've ever seen. Sheesh, and I thought my 7.1 setup was cramped. Considering your space constraints, you did a great job with layout and positioning. I count, uh, seven speakers plus two cylindrical (SVS?) subs. Obviously I can't seen the side and back surrounds from this angle.

I like what you did with the Auralux Grammas and MoPads. They're great for getting the right angle and height, aren't they? Plus they help a bit with decoupling depending on the frequency. The overall room treatments shown should do a good job with controlling low frequencies. So yeah, I expected outlandish, but this is just another level entirely.

I've got only one more thing to say: I want a demo!!

Just point your ears towards the north west. I think I can probably play this system loud enough for you to hear it from where you are.



Thanks for the compliments! It IS a tight fit, but I planned it out extensively, and it worked out pretty well, given my constraints, I think.

Yes, I have dual SVSound PC13-Ultra subs placed at the mid-point of each side wall. And yes, I love the Auralex MoPads and GRAMMA risers for damping and aiding in the angling

Wall treatments are a GiK Acoustics Room Kit. And the ceiling diffusers are Auralex MetroFusers. Those ceiling treatments made way more improvement than expected. Still had some "zing" slap echo without them, despite all the absorption and bass traps. Definitely worth treating up there!

I think the airplane crash scene from Flight of the Phoenix would sound epic on that system. Cloverfield might be a bit of fun too! A good concert Blu-Ray like John Mayer or Dave Mathews & Tim Reynolds would also be cool.

Please post what you have played and what it sounds like!

Jay

I've only had a wee bit of listening time. And things will change after full calibration. But I'm right there with you on the concert Blu-rays! I've listened to Chris Botti in Boston, John Mayer, and Daniel Barenboim plays Beethoven piano sonatas. And I've tried out Dredd 3D for DTS Neo:X 11.1 playback.

The DTS Neo:X tests were interesting. The discrete 11 speaker separation is excellent. You'd never guess it's matrixed. But it alters the sound quality quite a bit. It sounds as though the room is substantially larger, so there's some additional phase stuff going on, methinks. The straight DTS-HD Master Audio playback sounds almost like headphones in my setup because I'm so close to all the speakers and everything is so clear. With Neo:X engaged, it's like the speakers got pushed back 15 feet. It's interesting for sure, and I'll need a lot more listening experimentation

The concerts I just played straight. I will try out all the expansion modes, for sure later. But played straight, the sound from the Front Horizons is phenomenal. It's chill inducing. Literally.

Are you finished with calibration? Would like to hear more comments on your setup, like what speakers are powered by the ATI amp( weird for me, I think ATI and video cards come to mind)? Distance from screen, etc and of course how does it sound!!!!

I'm not finished at all with calibration: neither video nor audio, which is why I don't have more pictures yet

My Front Main Left & Right, Center, and Front Wide speakers are all powered by the ATI AT1805 amp. All the other channels are powered by my Onkyo TX-NR5010. When using the full 11 speaker setup, the Front Wides MUST be powered by a separate amplifier. There's no other choice.

Distance from eyes to screen is about 7 feet for a nearly 40 degree field of view. Really nice for movies, especially 3D. For TV and games, I prefer a little bit smaller field of view - around 32 degrees. But this setup is for movies and music, so it all works out nicely

I've not had time to do a ton of listening yet, and, of course, it's not fully calibrated yet, either. But in my preliminary listening, I can say that I am SO glad that I opted for the custom Front Wide Sierra-1 speakers that use the exact same RAAL 70-20XR ribbon tweeter and Tower midrange driver. That front soundstage is perfectly seamless, which was my biggest concern!

Calibration might change my opinion, but at the moment, with just "first impressions" listening, I hope Dave won't be upset with me for saying this, but there's a discernible difference between the Sierra-1 NrT and the RAAL upgraded Front Wides & custom Horizon Front Left, Right & Center. There's just an extra level of clarity, realism and "ease" with the Front speakers vs. the NrT Surrounds, Surround Backs, and Front Heights.

I honestly don't mind, as I am personally far less critical of the Surround and Height channels. But I'm honestly a little bit surprised. It's difficult to correctly describe the level of difference. The Sierra-1 NrT sound great! But there's a bigger improvement going to the custom Horizon RAAL than I had anticipated. Let me put it this way: I had joked with Dave that it would be a while before I'd be upgrading my Sierra-1 NrT speakers to Sierra-2. Well, that's not such a joke anymore - haha. I think the way to describe it is: it feels like I'm so tantalizingly close to a PERFECT sound field that it's like, "why not?" Why not push this literally as far as it can go, and see if we can't reach nirvana? haha. Basically, the Sierra-1 NrT as Surrounds and Heights are letting me glimpse and imagine. They're right up to the edge. But having those custom RAAL 70-20XR & Tower midrange Sierra-1 wides has let me envision what the sound could/might be. I have faith that the Sierra-2 will get me to that imagined place. So, time to save up some more funds

[petmotel]

Calibration might change my opinion, but at the moment, with just "first impressions" listening, I hope Dave won't be upset with me for saying this, but there's a discernible difference between the Sierra-1 NrT and the RAAL upgraded Front Wides & custom Horizon Front Left, Right & Center. There's just an extra level of clarity, realism and "ease" with the Front speakers vs. the NrT Surrounds, Surround Backs, and Front Heights.

I honestly don't mind, as I am personally far less critical of the Surround and Height channels. But I'm honestly a little bit surprised. It's difficult to correctly describe the level of difference. The Sierra-1 NrT sound great! But there's a bigger improvement going to the custom Horizon RAAL than I had anticipated. Let me put it this way: I had joked with Dave that it would be a while before I'd be upgrading my Sierra-1 NrT speakers to Sierra-2. Well, that's not such a joke anymore - haha. I think the way to describe it is: it feels like I'm so tantalizingly close to a PERFECT sound field that it's like, "why not?" Why not push this literally as far as it can go, and see if we can't reach nirvana? haha. Basically, the Sierra-1 NrT as Surrounds and Heights are letting me glimpse and imagine. They're right up to the edge. But having those custom RAAL 70-20XR & Tower midrange Sierra-1 wides has let me envision what the sound could/might be. I have faith that the Sierra-2 will get me to that imagined place. So, time to save up some more funds

I also heard a marked difference between my front stage (all with ribbons) and the NRT Sierra-1 surrounds when I first fired up my system with the new speakers. However, after running a sweep, and looking at the results, I could see a substantial difference between response curves with those locations. After engaging the ARC system in my D-2processor, the sound field became much more 3 dimensional, and seamless. I'll be interested to see what you think after the system is better dialed in.

Jay

[billy p]

Rob....how would you compare the RAALs to other speakers you've heard...now that you've heard them...whats your POV and how, if maybe, has it changed?

Btw...I like your chairs...ha...

Re :Bill

[davef]

Attachment 907

I am truly speechless!

[TTL2000]

What's the over/under for days before being booted from the apartment?

[FirstReflect]

Rob....how would you compare the RAALs to other speakers you've heard...now that you've heard them...whats your POV and how, if maybe, has it changed?

Btw...I like your chairs...ha...

Yay! Some love for my little chairs!

haha

Thanks, Bill. I don't even need to fully dial in and calibrate the Front Main and Center speakers to say that I really don't think I've heard outright "better" speakers at any price point.

Naturally, the biggest problem is that I'm not doing side-by-side comparisons. I'm just going off of the memories of the listening experiences that I've had. So all I can really compare are the emotional responses that I had, and my overall impressions of what I remember from all the speakers I've heard in the past. That's not at all a fair comparison. But at the same time, some speakers sort of leave a "mark" on you that you easily recall.

For example, I easily remember the impression of realism I got from Magnepan's 3.6 speakers. But I also recall them not having a perfectly flat frequency response. Still, there was that "uncanny" quality about them where, if you closed your eyes, you really, really got that sense that you were listening to real live instruments, rather than speakers.

I recall the Revel Ultima Salon sounding supremely neutral. And I remember feeling like the Revel Performa3 line really sounds like the ultimate expression of the "NRC sound". Just very, very neutral and even in every way. But not quite "uncanny" real.

And I really recall the Focal Professional SM11 Studio Monitors. To this day, I don't recall ever being able to pick out minute details and 0.5dB changes in the mix the way those SM11 Monitors revealed such things.

But the simplest way that I can describe what I'm hearing with these custom Horizon RAAL speakers is, "every sound in the recording is there, and nothing that's NOT in the recording is being produced."

They just sound supremely clean. Some of that is the room. Some of that is the electronics. But, like I'm saying, just on first impressions, even going between the Sierra-1 NrT and the Horizon RAAL, there's an extra cleanliness and realism with the Horizon RAAL speakers.

One of the things that's really struck me with the Horizon RAAL Front speakers: when you go and listen to a live concert, or you play as part of a musician's group or an orchestra - there's an anticipation that you learn in terms of the sounds that you expect to hear. It's a bit tough to describe, but subconsciously, you know and anticipate the sounds of the various instruments.

With most speakers, I'm realizing that the sounds I'm anticipating and then the sounds that actually come out of the speakers don't quite match up. I think that's a big part of what lets us know that we're listening to speakers vs. real instruments. I think we're sort of inherently used to what real instruments sound like. We see a violinist raise his or her bow, and we already know and anticipate what the notes will sound like when he or she draws that bow across the strings. We see a pianist place his or her hands just above the keys, and we know and anticipate what the sound will be when he or she depresses those keys. Without thinking about it, we're anticipating the sound because we're familiar with it.

Well, with the Horizon RAAL speakers, the sound matches the anticipation. And that's a whole other emotional and psychological experience that I haven't really thought about or taken notice of before. Realizing it now, though, I think it makes perfect sense!

It really struck me how much that anticipation is part of the listening experience. I hadn't thought about it before, but I really think it's a critical component now. I could never quite place my finger on what it was before. Why was it that when I go to a live concert, or play in an amateur (and I'm definitely an amateur when it comes to actually playing anything - haha) group, why is that sound and experience so different vs. listening to a recording on speakers at home?

Well, with these Horizon RAAL speakers, I think I finally understand the answer. The anticipation of the sounds I expect to hear - having those match up with the sound that actually comes out of the speakers - it's almost like a reward that triggers something in the brain. You anticipate something, and then you get it, which sets off a part of our mind's reward system, I think. To me, hearing it now, that is what has been missing when playing recorded music through speakers. But now I think it's a HUGE part of the listening experience!

Anywho, I've no idea how you'd measure something like that objectively -- haha. But that anticipation factor is something of an epiphany for me. The fact that it had never struck me as a thought before is, perhaps, the easiest way to explain how I think the Horizon RAAL compare to other speakers. They made me realize something new about listening in general. And for an experienced listener like me, how do you top that?

I am truly speechless!

I'm so glad you approve, Dave!

(you did mean the good kind of speechless, right? haha)

[crazycuz2k]

Well Dave... Now you know how your demo room should look

[markie]

Awesome description and insights about the listening experience, thanks Rob!

Mark