Sierra-1 NrT = HT. Towers = Music ?

[Pianist718]

Hi guys,

confusing title, I know.

I own Sierra-1 NrT front/left/center, Rythmik 12" sub and smaller Ascend surrounds.

For home theater, what I have is great, BUT .... when I play (pop, jazz, classical, rock) music via Left and Right (2 ch) stereo, I notice that NrT is a bit toooo bright for my liking and mid levels could be better. Don't get me wrong .... sound is wonderful, BUT, I know that it can sound better.

Now .... I am about to have a baby, so already know that having Sierras on a stand is not practical ... one day, that kid will push them over. :-)

I am leaning towards buying Left/Right towers.

Question: Will changing Sierra-1 NrT to Towers RAAL solve my issue that I have with current set up??? Will I notice a major difference? I know it's kind of subjective but still, from people that heard both NrT and RAAL as well as Sierras and then Towers ....

Thanks

[JustABrah]

I'm sure the raal would help, from what I hear their more laid back, but I'm very interested in the Sierra-1 to tower comparison. Cause if one has a sub to take over the lows and cross it over at 80 wouldn't that open up the mid woofer in the Sierra-1 to act more as a mid range woofer and tweeter for the highs and the sub to handle the lows? The Sierra-2 are just around the corner and that should make them more laid back and take away that brightness your hearing, if they use the raal. I know I couldn't tell much of a difference between the paradigm studio 20s to the studio 60

I'm in a same boat as you as I'm really trying to convince myself to buy the horizon as a LCR but having a hard time justifying the big cost as Sierra-1 sound pretty great. I think Dave made the Sierra-1s too good haha.

[Dark Ranger]

Now .... I am about to have a baby...

Oh my! How did your wife take the news?

Question: Will changing Sierra-1 NrT to Towers RAAL solve my issue that I have with current set up??? Will I notice a major difference? I know it's kind of subjective but still, from people that heard both NrT and RAAL as well as Sierras and then Towers

I don't have the NrT Sierra-1s, but I do have a RAAL-equipped Horizon. That tweeter is hands-down the best tweeter I've ever heard. Absolutely no fatigue to my ears, and I'm pretty sensitive to high-frequencies (more than most guys my age). I can't imagine anyone finding the RAAL harsh or bright. With the Towers, you also get a dedicated midrange driver for midder mids.

I'll leave the direct comparison to others, but I can tell you that the NrT has more stored energy and decay time compared to the custom 70-20XR. Maybe that is part of what you're hearing from the Sierra-1 NrT. Your room acoustics can also influence the final sonic signature, namely lots of bare wall space (slap and echo).

[Pianist718]

Oh my! How did your wife take the news?

hahaha, funny.

Yea, I am already thinking of kid proofing the house and i know once that kid starts to crawl, my speakers may end up on the floor.

[Mag_Neato]

While "kid-proofing" is a nice excuse to go with the towers, it is not guaranteed. I had some Vandersteen model 1b's and one of them was knocked/pushed over and ended up leaning into the corner of the room. There was slight damage to the veneer on the top plate as well as some gouging of the wall. At least a speaker did not come crashing down from a stand and injure my son! You could use the blue tack or museum wax that many owners of stand mounted monitors use to secure the speaker. Supposed to be very effective. BUT, if you've already convinced yourself that the towers are the way to go and you have the budget, who am I to argue with sound logic!(Pun intended!)

[Pianist718]

While "kid-proofing" is a nice excuse to go with the towers, it is not guaranteed. I had some Vandersteen model 1b's and one of them was knocked/pushed over and ended up leaning into the corner of the room. There was slight damage to the veneer on the top plate as well as some gouging of the wall. At least a speaker did not come crashing down from a stand and injure my son! You could use the blue tack or museum wax that many owners of stand mounted monitors use to secure the speaker. Supposed to be very effective. BUT, if you've already convinced yourself that the towers are the way to go and you have the budget, who am I to argue with sound logic!(Pun intended!)

:-) Hey, will all the extra expenses to come soon, why not use the situation to benefit a bit as well.

I did use the blue tack, but if anyone leans on the stand, it will go down for sure.

my only problem is that my current Sierra-1s are color dark cherry. Unfortunately there is no option now to try to match Sierra-1 center to new towers. Unless David does a custom center for me with Sierra-1 but with box made of the same finish as towers.

I am just curious if I will notice a great difference in music sound when I play 2 chanel direct Sierra NrT vs towers RAAL

[curtis]

I am just curious if I will notice a great difference in music sound when I play 2 chanel direct Sierra NrT vs towers RAAL

"Great" is subjective. I'll say this much, if you don't hear a difference, then there is something wrong with your hearing.

[FirstReflect]

I agree that you'd very likely hear a difference. The only problem is that I'm not entirely certain that the Sierra-1 NrT speakers themselves are the current cause of the sounds you find a bit objectionable. I have to say, I'm rather surprised to see the Sierra-1 NrT being described as "a bit too bright", and lacking some mid-range clarity. Just based upon the inherent sound quality characteristics of the speakers themselves, that doesn't really jibe with the sound they're throwing out at you if you were in, say, an anechoic chamber, a sound treated studio, or a wide open field

So, that leads me to believe that the source of your issues are actually part of your current room acoustics.

Here's the thing: the Sierra Towers with RAAL do offer better mid-range clarity, and even better transient response and clarity of detail in the treble thanks to that fabulous RAAL ribbon tweeter! Also, and I think this might be more important than even those factors, it has wonderfully even and controlled polar response, with the off axis response of the RAAL ribbon perfectly matching the off axis response of the mid-range driver. The reason that is so important is because we use the reflected sound off of the side walls of any room to subconsciously get a sense of the room's size. And if there are anomalies and unevenness in the polar response of the speaker, that creates confusion in our brain that causes fatigue, and ruins the illusion of realism. It's a big part of why we can easily tell we are listening to speakers rather than a live performance. The Sierra Towers with RAAL excel in this area, which means a greater illusion of realism, and less fatigue.

So, plenty of good reasons still to upgrade. BUT, because your description of what's bugging you about your Sierra-1 NrT speakers sounds so much like room acoustic problems, I really think you should take a moment to address those issues first! For one thing, fixing the acoustics might make you perfectly happy with your current speakers, and remove the desire to upgrade! And second, it isn't really fair, in my opinion, to buy speakers as wonderful as the Sierra Towers with RAAL, only to put them in a bad acoustic environment. It's the proverbial, "buying a Ferrari to drive in stop-and-go city traffic".

So, a couple of things:

1) tell us all about your room: dimensions, layout, materials, where the doors, windows, and other openings are, and where the furniture is placed. We might be able to spot an obvious problem and offer solutions!

2) talk to Dave and/or the other fine folks here at Ascend. Get their input, for sure.

3) I highly recommend making use of the FREE room analysis service from GiK Acoustics. You can find it here: http://gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/

It's free, the folks at GiK are total professionals and awesome to deal with, and you'll learn a ton about your room, even just from filling out the form and being forced to think about your room acoustically!

[Pianist718]

I agree that you'd very likely hear a difference. The only problem is that I'm not entirely certain that the Sierra-1 NrT speakers themselves are the current cause of the sounds you find a bit objectionable. I have to say, I'm rather surprised to see the Sierra-1 NrT being described as "a bit too bright", and lacking some mid-range clarity. Just based upon the inherent sound quality characteristics of the speakers themselves, that doesn't really jibe with the sound they're throwing out at you if you were in, say, an anechoic chamber, a sound treated studio, or a wide open field

So, that leads me to believe that the source of your issues are actually part of your current room acoustics.

Here's the thing: the Sierra Towers with RAAL do offer better mid-range clarity, and even better transient response and clarity of detail in the treble thanks to that fabulous RAAL ribbon tweeter! Also, and I think this might be more important than even those factors, it has wonderfully even and controlled polar response, with the off axis response of the RAAL ribbon perfectly matching the off axis response of the mid-range driver. The reason that is so important is because we use the reflected sound off of the side walls of any room to subconsciously get a sense of the room's size. And if there are anomalies and unevenness in the polar response of the speaker, that creates confusion in our brain that causes fatigue, and ruins the illusion of realism. It's a big part of why we can easily tell we are listening to speakers rather than a live performance. The Sierra Towers with RAAL excel in this area, which means a greater illusion of realism, and less fatigue.

So, plenty of good reasons still to upgrade. BUT, because your description of what's bugging you about your Sierra-1 NrT speakers sounds so much like room acoustic problems, I really think you should take a moment to address those issues first! For one thing, fixing the acoustics might make you perfectly happy with your current speakers, and remove the desire to upgrade! And second, it isn't really fair, in my opinion, to buy speakers as wonderful as the Sierra Towers with RAAL, only to put them in a bad acoustic environment. It's the proverbial, "buying a Ferrari to drive in stop-and-go city traffic".

So, a couple of things:

1) tell us all about your room: dimensions, layout, materials, where the doors, windows, and other openings are, and where the furniture is placed. We might be able to spot an obvious problem and offer solutions!

2) talk to Dave and/or the other fine folks here at Ascend. Get their input, for sure.

3) I highly recommend making use of the FREE room analysis service from GiK Acoustics. You can find it here: http://gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/

It's free, the folks at GiK are total professionals and awesome to deal with, and you'll learn a ton about your room, even just from filling out the form and being forced to think about your room acoustically!

Great post. Thank you.

I know I have problems with my room acoustics. It's somewhat empty. It's a horizontal room 18 by 12 with 9ft ceiling. Speakers are facing the shorter side ... the 12ft

I have a floor rug but my walls are empty. There are 2 windows on the 18ft side and the other end opens up to a dining/hallway. Opening is about 6ft on the 12ft side.

Speakers are pushed away from back wall by about 1ft (can't move them more forward ... looks weird). They are facing a leather sofa and a leather/glass ottoman.

If adding some foam behind speaker is going to help, I am all for it. If covering corners with the sound dampening, I am for it. I just want to make sure that it will help in sound.

Like I said, for me .... Sierra NrT is very detailed, BUT .... when they play an alto saxophone or another instrument that has high sounding notes, many times it's just toooo bright. Same is with the gun shots in movies .... just too "high pitched".

[curtis]

Have you checked all the settings on your Yamaha. Re-run YPAO?

Foam behind the speaker won't help with higher frequencies. You need to dampen the reflection points. Do you have drapes or covering on the windows?