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Thread: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

  1. #1
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    Default Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    I am running on Onkyo 705 with 5 channels (no .1 and I probably do as much 2 channel as 5...). While watching The Dark Knight Rises Blu-ray, I noted a few instances where my front left Sierra 1 and to a lesser extent the right seemed to have a slight rattle (I was attributing it to additional "detail" in the background of the movie and not a rattle). The element that has me concerned however is when Fox takes Miranda on the elevator/platform down to the reactor and the elevator hits bottom/stops. A heavy bass signal is sent which made the speakers (and yes, it came from the speakers and not the room) --esp. the front left-- sound like a rattle was coming from them. This is the secondary concern however. The primary concern is that the speakers (left front in particular) created a sound with that base signal similar to what one would expect small speakers from a child's toy (or inexpensive external computer speakers) to create if hooked up to play one of the lower registers of a pipe organ or bass heavy rap etc.

    Initially, I wondered if it was actually the sound editing, but playing it at a very quiet level seemed to resolve this. Volume was set at 70 (for those with familiarity-- I know, there can be a lot of variables). Suffice it to say that it was not exceptionally loud and the distortion could be replicated at about 63 up.

    So the questions:

    1) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Does any of this seem to suggest that my speaker may in fact be damaged OR may have suffered damage? I have never heard this from these speakers, but then I have never watched this disc until tonight. I would not expect moderate volumes from a reasonably powered receiver and outstanding speakers to do this.

    2) What is anyone's guess as to what happened?

    Thank you for knowledgeable insight.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Do you use a sub? The speakers are running fullrange?

    Probably sent some pretty low frequencies at an output level that caused excessive port noise....or maybe bottom out the woofer(although I have never read that happening).
    -curtis

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Curtis,

    Thank you for the reply. I know a great deal about "listening" but considerably less about the technical elements of what the speakers are "doing"...

    No ".1" signal. In other words, no subwoofer. Yes, the fronts are set to full range. There is no doubt that it was a VERY low frequency that was put out at that point. Again, although the volume was somewhat high it was nowhere close to being what most would consider especially loud (and I am only sitting about 8.5' back for this particular setup).

    I've never heard of excessive port noise with the Sierra 1. What can you tell me about it? If the woofer was "bottomed out" would that cause damage? Again, I really did not have things set very loud.

    I am thrilled with these speakers and am truly hoping there is nothing wrong with one (or both).

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Anybody able to answer?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    The excessive port noise would sound something like a "flutter", caused by more air/velocity than was it was designed for.

    Yes, bottoming could hurt the driver, but if anything was damaged, you would hear it during normal use.
    -curtis

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Well, when I worked on replicating the sound with the volume starting low and gradually increasing each play time I positioned my cheek and ear relatively close to the port to attempt to better hear what was happening. There was certainly a tremendous and very sudden rush of air out of the port (almost felt like a small fan but in a burst). I don't know how to really describe the distorted bass sound other than if you have used a pair of cheap/small ear-phone jack type speakers plugged into a computer playing back music with any significant bass at a moderate volume. Can port noise sound similar to clipping? I certainly hope that is not what I heard (and come to think of it, don't figure that between the Onkyo and the Sierra 1 in a conservative set up and moderate volume this would be the case).

    I presume the damage from bottoming a driver would be something that would be readily apparent then-- yes/no? I would expect that the volume should need to be set quite high as well.?.? What type of sound/indicator would I expect to hear from such damage? I have not been able to sit and listen since then due to other demands, but the little I did, did not sound objectionable.

    Thank you so very much Curtis for sharing your time and information and any extra answers you can provide regarding these questions/concerns.
    Last edited by 883; 01-10-2013 at 07:39 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by 883 View Post
    Well, when I worked on replicating the sound with the volume starting low and gradually increasing each play time I positioned my cheek and ear relatively close to the port to attempt to better hear what was happening. There was certainly a tremendous and very sudden rush of air out of the port (almost felt like a small fan but in a burst). I don't know how to really describe the distorted bass sound other than if you have used a pair of cheap/small ear-phone jack type speakers plugged into a computer playing back music with any significant bass at a moderate volume. Can port noise sound similar to clipping? I certainly hope that is not what I heard (and come to think of it, don't figure that between the Onkyo and the Sierra 1 in a conservative set up and moderate volume this would be the case).

    I presume the damage from bottoming a driver would be something that would be readily apparent then-- yes/no? I would expect that the volume should need to be set quite high as well.?.? What type of sound/indicator would I expect to hear from such damage? I have not been able to sit and listen since then due to other demands, but the little I did, did not sound objectionable.

    Thank you so very much Curtis for sharing your time and information and any extra answers you can provide regarding these questions/concerns.
    Some parts of movies can have very deep bass and when the actual frequencies are lower than the port tune of the speaker (which in the case of the Sierra-1 is ~40Hz), the woofer will become unloaded and can exhibit extreme excursion. Because of the extreme excursion, there will be a lot of air rushing in and out of the port tube.

    I strongly doubt your woofer is damaged, if it were -- you would hear mechanical distress with all source material, not just this once section of a soundtrack. Be careful though, extreme excursion like this can indeed damage a woofer. To avoid this, try setting the speakers to "small" and setting a low (40-50Hz) crossover point if you don't plan on adding a subwoofer to cover such deep bass...

    hope this helps!
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Mr. Fabrikant,

    Thank you. I watched Ocean's Eleven and once again heard the same thing (during the demolition of a casino) once again at a fairly conservative volume. The disconcerting element to me is that along with the distortion it sounds like a rattle from inside the speaker (which made me worry about "bottoming out"/damage) when it happens and it sounds like it is primarily only occurring with one speaker. I actually wanted to set the crossover at 50Hz, but because I do not have a subwoofer the Onkyo locks the fronts to "Large" or "Full" after an Audyssey calibration.

    I listen to more music than I watch movies and most of the music is classical at primarily conservative/moderate volume. With the limited listening I have had the opportunity to do over the last little while, things have sounded as beautiful as usual...

    Do you have any other thoughts on the matter Mr. Fabrikant (damage, things to watch for, etc.)?

    Thank you again.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by 883 View Post
    Mr. Fabrikant,

    Thank you. I watched Ocean's Eleven and once again heard the same thing (during the demolition of a casino) once again at a fairly conservative volume. The disconcerting element to me is that along with the distortion it sounds like a rattle from inside the speaker (which made me worry about "bottoming out"/damage) when it happens and it sounds like it is primarily only occurring with one speaker. I actually wanted to set the crossover at 50Hz, but because I do not have a subwoofer the Onkyo locks the fronts to "Large" or "Full" after an Audyssey calibration.

    I listen to more music than I watch movies and most of the music is classical at primarily conservative/moderate volume. With the limited listening I have had the opportunity to do over the last little while, things have sounded as beautiful as usual...

    Do you have any other thoughts on the matter Mr. Fabrikant (damage, things to watch for, etc.)?

    Thank you again.
    What you are hearing is precisely as I described in my previous post. The soundtrack of the movie combined with your receiver is asking your Sierra-1 speaker to reproduce dynamic 20Hz bass. The Sierra-1 is not going to like it (nor will most speakers) To make matters worse, since you are using Audyssey and Audyssey has no idea what the capabilites of the speakers are, your receiver is going to try and equalize the speakers flat to 20Hz, thus considerably boosting low frequencies in order to achieve a flat full-range in-room response. This is a really, really bad idea and you will eventually damage your speaker and this type of damage is not covered under our warranty since your receiver is asking the speakers to perform well out of their specifications.

    That said, you need to override Audyssey and use a 50Hz crossover and then re-run the auto-eq. Your receiver does not "know" whether you have a subwoofer connected so if you can not override the settings, I recommend that you set the subwoofer option to "yes" in the receiver and just set a low crossover point... This is one of the major drawbacks with auto-eq systems, if you set the speakers to full range, Audyssey will try to equalize them to a flat full range response and the Sierra-1 are not full range loudspeakers...

    Hope this makes sense!
    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sierra 1 & bass distortion?

    Very helpful.

    You mentioned that I would hear "mechanical distress" with all sources if the woofer was damaged... If you are able to describe, what would this sound like and would it be significantly dependent on volume level and or frequencies (needing to be particularly low)?

    I apologize if this is beleaguering the matter but I truly hope my lack of understanding with the Audyssey and speaker combination has not likely (esp. noticeably) shortened the life of or damaged my speakers. I kinda love them.

    Thanks again.

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