Tower Set Up Findings, and Questions

[Blutarsky]

I have done my usual obsessive futzing around:

My listening position is 9 feet away.....Large great room with 20 foot cathedral ceilings.

Yamaha Adventage Receiver. Set up so far, Stereo, with a Sub. No YPAO.

Towers are now 80 inches apart, 13 inches out, with 1/4 inch of toe in. I did this running a variety of CDs in Pure Direct.

I then let the Sub chime in... I wound up putting in Q-Plug B, and setting the Receiver Crossover at 40 Hz.

Without the Plug 60 Hz sounded better, With the Plug 40 HZ sounds perfect.

Objectively, why does this result occur?

Blutarsky

[RicardoJoa]

Sounds like u prefer a flater bass out the tower with the b plug in.

[Dark Ranger]

I'll take a stab.

It sounds like you might have a "room mode" going on that creates a bump in certain bass frequencies. Using the 60 Hz crossover attenuates the bump, but choosing a 40 Hz crossover (with no Q-Plug) allows the bass reinforcement to remain.

When you use the Q-Plug B, it's reducing output in the 50-70 Hz range (compensating for the bass bump) while providing deeper bass response. This allows you to cross lower (40 Hz) and get cleaner bass response.

My $0.02.

[Blutarsky]

Thank's. I wound up using the B-Plugs in my Sierra-1's too, in the same position. I used YPAO then, but found the same outcome. Might be a Room Node. Sure nice to have the plug option.

PS. I am still changing between 40 Hz, and 60 HZ. That's the trouble with Subs..The configuration seems to change from song to song. I have a friend who changes his whole set up every track.... Drives me crazy.

B.

[Dark Ranger]

And therein lies a key problem with using a subwoofer: proper integration.

I completely understand the folks who prefer a "sub-less" audio system. It can be tricky to get a seamless integration, even with high-end equipment. One must worry about placement issues, matching phase, and matching levels, not to mention finding the optimal crossover. That's one reason I generally run the Sierras full-range with music. If I had the space for Towers, I'd do the same thing especially since the Towers have two dedicated high-performance woofers.

Good luck with the testing and tweaking.

Regarding PS: I can't imagine changing the setup for every track. My level of dedication and obsession is nowhere near that point!

EDIT: I forgot to say that I agree with you: having the Q-Plug option is very nice. That was a great idea and I'm glad Dave offered it to us. I'm using Q-Plug B in my Sierra-1 and prefer it to no plugs. It helps combat some of the issues in my less-than-optimal room. Makes the low-end sound really nice and smooth.

[Blutarsky]

In spite of the fact that I only had 2 possible locations, the Sub is well integrated. I used it with my Sierra-1's.

I had full range speakers before I got the Sub. The care and feeding of full range speakers is a big commitment, in money, and furniture arrangement.

Besides, Blue Ray audio had evolved, and our OPPO wasn't able to force dialogue into 2 channels any longer. When we started using sub titles, the game was on.

We decided to go to a 3.1 system. A huge decision financially with monster 4 Ohm speakers that frequently dropped down to 1 ohm loads. Thus, Ascend Acoustics.

When our Center is done, I will weigh in again with pictures.

Thanks to all.

Chris

[Dark Ranger]

Hey Chris,

If I came across as opinionated or seemed to offer unnecessarily pointed comments, that was not my intent. I was more just thinking out loud, not trying to discount your purchases or suggest you change your entire setup.

For what it's worth, I do own and use a subwoofer.

I really hope you enjoy your new Towers and forthcoming low-profile Horizon! I gotta tell ya that after seeing the pictures of the new finish, that will be my first choice for Towers in the future (unless the Piano Black finish drops in price). Those really look sharp.

If you do decide to post pictures later, I'll be right back here with bib in hand.


Take care!

[curtis]

I think Dave is more concerned with bass quality than how deep the speaker can reach. That thought is really reflected in the Sierra line.

If your EQ system does not match/correct phase with the subwoofer, then do it manually. It makes a lot of difference.

[RicardoJoa]

I think Dave is more concerned with bass quality than how deep the speaker can reach. That thought is really reflected in the Sierra line.

If your EQ system does not match/correct phase with the subwoofer, then do it manually. It makes a lot of difference.

What do you consider bass? For example, what is bass frequencies ranges?

[Blutarsky]

I want members to be open, and honest. I was just eliminating Sub Set up as a variable. (except for crossover and plug tweaking)

I am doing everything manually. The YPAO didn't seem to work well on the 3.1 set up. It really muddied up the sub. In fact, I completely reset my receiver when I got my towers.

I just did the mains first, then added the sub, and finally the Center. Just adjusted the volume levels in the center to make it even.

Thanks much.

Chris