Sierra-2 Development Thread

[petmotel]

yeah he was talking about mids for transient response... But tweets also affect mids, so RAAL +sierra1 woofer vs NrT + dedicated mid.. My uneducated guess; latter wins for mids.. Actually, no idea.. Would have to see crossover points and driver distortion figures... :P but yeah, even if same price; diminishing returns; towers probably better overall; better bang for buck; not sure S1 RAAL outperforms in mids...

Y RAAL? because people want it some for upgrades, others for matching surrounds, etc..

Crossover points, and distortion plots will tell you almost nothing about transient response of a speaker SYSTEM. If you look at the measurements page of the Sierra Towers, there are measurements labeled "Energy Time Curve", and "Cumulative Spectral Decay" plots that do actually give a very detailed look at transient behavior of these speakers. Unfortunately, almost no other manufacturer supplies it's customers with such detailed technical information by which these types of performance parameters can be compared.

Due to the physical properties of the different driver types (as well as the midrange suspension and motor types) used in the Sierras, and the Towers, the midrange frequencies, as well as the bass will always be better in the three way Towers than the two way Sierra-1s. That being said, they are all amazing speakers, but the dynamics of the Towers is clearly superior.

Jay

[GirgleMirt]

Hmm has a Sierra-2 been announced or even hinted? Isn't this thread; phase 2, the RAAL Sierra-1? I remember some speculation about a sierra 'SE'/2; woofer improvements, but its only been that; speculation...

[eliwankenobi]

The Sierra-1 RAAL is a custom job (possibly involves modification of the cabinet), its not the Sierra-2.

The Sierra-2 is a new confirmed model which seems to keep the same woofer, but will have a new tweeter which is not the same as the ribbon tweeter in the towers. It has not been confirmed that this new tweeter is RAAL, but speculation goes that it could be the 70-10 model instead of the custom 70-20 tweeter in the tower. Regardless, Dave confirmed some pages ago that its gonna be called the Sierra-2 and that current owners of the Sierra-1 can upgrade to the Sierra-2. Possible release date by June as per Dave's post.

[Dark Ranger]

GirgleMirt,

Paragraphs 4 and 5 here.



eliwankenobi,

Welcome to the forum! So glad you could join us.

[curtis]

The Sierra-2 is a new confirmed model which seems to keep the same woofer, but will have a new tweeter which is not the same as the ribbon tweeter in the towers. It has not been confirmed that this new tweeter is RAAL, but speculation goes that it could be the 70-10 model instead of the custom 70-20 tweeter in the tower. Regardless, Dave confirmed some pages ago that its gonna be called the Sierra-2 and that current owners of the Sierra-1 can upgrade to the Sierra-2. Possible release date by June as per Dave's post.

Other than the name of the speaker, and being able to upgrade a Sierra-1 to a Sierra-2, I can confirm that everything else is speculation.

[Dark Ranger]

Other than the name of the speaker, and being able to upgrade a Sierra-1 to a Sierra-2, I can confirm that everything else is speculation.

Ah ha! I see what you did there. Very sneaky.

[GirgleMirt]

Crossover points, and distortion plots will tell you almost nothing about transient response of a speaker SYSTEM. If you look at the measurements page of the Sierra Towers, there are measurements labeled "Energy Time Curve", and "Cumulative Spectral Decay" plots that do actually give a very detailed look at transient behavior of these speakers. Unfortunately, almost no other manufacturer supplies it's customers with such detailed technical information by which these types of performance parameters can be compared.

Due to the physical properties of the different driver types (as well as the midrange suspension and motor types) used in the Sierras, and the Towers, the midrange frequencies, as well as the bass will always be better in the three way Towers than the two way Sierra-1s. That being said, they are all amazing speakers, but the dynamics of the Towers is clearly superior.

Jay

That would be cheating! To get those graphs the speaker needs to be built and measured so at that point, no need to guess! Not seen waterfall graphs provided with drivers often....

2 vs 3 way is not so simple, lot of it is a matter of implementation & components. Simplifying, NrT tweet < RAAL, dedicated mid > woofer, so impossible to say without driver specs & crossover... Xo will also affect transient response, SPL, distortion, etc..

[Mr.Lawrence]

I recently upgraded my Sierra 1 (L,C,R) to NrT. I'm pleased to hear that there is a Sierra-2 in the works, but very disappointed that I was not aware before taking the plunge.

[Mag_Neato]

I recently upgraded my Sierra 1 (L,C,R) to NrT. I'm pleased to hear that there is a Sierra-2 in the works, but very disappointed that I was not aware before taking the plunge.

Welcome to the world of audio, where upgraditis is King!

[j0nnyfive]

FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T DECIDE BETWEEN SIERRA-1 or -2 BOOKSHELF OR TOWER, I wrote this post for you. If you are new to "fine audio" without a lot of experience, but are researching your head off, and are afraid of not getting the tower because "I need to get the best I an afford so I don't regret it later"... this is for you.


I just want to throw something in here with regards to the Sierra Tower vs the Sierra bookshelf since I've owned both. And, something like what I'm about to say has been stated ad nauseum on forums everywhere I'm sure. But, with me personally, it isn't a matter of "which one has the technically superior sound" as much as it is a matter of using the right tool for the right job. Here are my reasons:

1. I like to sit fairly close to the speakers while listening to music. To my ears, the towers don't seem quite as "right" very close up. (By close up, I mean like 4 or 5 feet. Near-field?) I think I tend to approach listening to speakers more like someone would use studio monitors or maybe even headphones instead of sitting farther back and enjoying the speakers "in the environment." I don't know if I said that right.
2. My rooms are not acoustically sound (pun), so the farther back I sit, the more "room" I hear.
(If your room "blurs" your sound too much, and you need to sit farther back, it may be hard
to tell if you have a better midrange or not.) So ask yourself what you can, and are willing to do for your room acoustics, because your room will have the final say in the sound quality.
3. I prefer three identical speakers across my front sound stage. Not everyone cares about this though. It's a personal preference related to home theater. I don't want three towers, nor would I want three Horizons (and I'm not sure they would image quite as well as the towers).
4. I prefer to be able to easily lift and transport my speakers to friend's homes. I drive a car and don't have the world's best back.
5. I prefer smaller speakers for some aesthetic, mystical, psychoacoustical, hand-wavey nonsense as well. lol
6. I will always use subwoofers because of room mode issues. So bass extension differences don't matter much to me in the main speakers.
7. If I ever get a Sierra-3 in the future, I can use the Sierra-2 as surrounds. Not sure
I would do that with towers.
8. There is a point with some people where you've met a speaker that is "IT". In other words, "good ENOUGH". I feel that I hit that mark with the Sierra-1 NrT. The tower is capable of more, but I still feel that the bookshelf hit my "enough" mark. And actually, in the acoustic environment the towers are in now, I feel the CMT-340s hit the "enough" mark in that room, as the room has way too many reflections.

Do I think the towers are technically superior? I don't doubt that they are. But, would I rather have stuck to the bookshelf NrT at this point? Yes, for the reasons above.

With regard to dynamics: I've come to agree with others on this forum that you should know what SPL level you intend to listen at. Is your speaker dynamic ENOUGH? It isn't a binary issue, it's a spectrum. (I've been comparing the Ascend speakers' output levels with competing speakers, and the Ascends beat the pants off many of them!) All of the Ascend speakers will be MUCH more dynamic than smaller, cheaper speakers such as those found in small "sub/sat" packages. At the same time, NONE of the Ascend speakers will be as dynamic as large theater-like horn speakers. But do you like the sound of those horn speakers? Some are good, it's a preference thing. Is your concern about dynamics related to home theater only? If you are using the speakers for home theater, then unless you have at least 5 speakers (and maybe a subwoofer) in your setup, Dolby initiates some type of dynamic compression anyway, so you may not be hearing the full capability of your speakers (during movies) unless you have all that handled. Also, will you be using amplification other than a receiver? This will give you more headroom, and potentially, a better sound as well. Also, more speakers will give you more overall output. So, consider these things while thinking about "dynamic range."

Anyway, I just said all that for people who may be having a hard time deciding between the two by only thinking in terms of "more and better" while missing other important issues that may dominate. Because that's what I did, and I acted too hastily. Please think it through! I think if you have a room that isn't TOO bad acoustically, and you are going to be sitting back on the couch somewhere, and you aren't super center channel picky like I am, then I don't see any reason to NOT get the towers. But if you read my reasons above and find that you relate to them, I would take a step back and think about it some more.

I apologize if this is too far off-topic. I just needed to get this out just in case there is another "me" out there. If this needs to be moved to a different thread, please do! I hope this helps someone!

P.S. I am VERY happy with the towers, so don't take this the wrong way! I will figure out a way to enhance the environment somehow, eventually!