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Thread: denpuresound's quest for speakers

  1. #11
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam1000 View Post
    I think it's a reasonable request before spending $$ on towers and RAAL upgrade. Any new buyer would want to see this information.

    On the other hand the FR gets totally skewed in home environment:-) even with room correction software :-( I have the FR graphs that are accompanied with each speaker and they are impressive. The REW graphs look totally different though. Of course, I'm measuring the FR using RadioShack meter as opposed to obscenely expensive microphones.
    Exactly what I was saying, your right on Sam!!

    For supporting accurate measurements in your listening room or theater, you will want to buy the high-quality microphone, and the companion piece of hardware called the iAudioInterface (Around $400). And certainly, the plots will look totally different than the anechoic chamber plots, but with Ruler-Flat chamber plots, you know what the Ref. Speaker can do, the rest is dialing in the room, and once that is accomplished, sit back and listen to some superb .flac or .wav tunes, and then have a cold Beer, and call your neighbors over!!

  2. #12
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Wow – a lot of irony here. We were the first ID audio company to publish and promote detailed measurements and we were the first to send our products to the NRC for “TRUE” third party anechoic measurements.

    Dennis, I am pleased to hear that you are interested in our Sierra Towers. However, we are a friendly laid-back group here and your post comes across as demanding and a bit out of place. I, more than anyone, can understand your desire to see various measurements but you should also know that comparing “manufacturer” posted measurements is not completely reliable. Many of the measurements you mention are not conducted in an anechoic chamber and many still are just modeled simulations.

    If you browse our site and do a bit more reading, you will see extremely detailed and accurate measurements of all of our advertised loudspeakers. We use industry standard measurement gear, which includes two full MLSSA systems, reference grade ACO Pacific microphones and a fully automated turntable for taking accurate off-axis measurements. Our equipment is actually calibrated to the gear used at the NRC.

    Still, even with a full suite of measurements – you will not be able to determine which is the more “accurate” loudspeaker. For example, what do you consider to be an accurate off-axis response? Do you expect a gentle and linear off-axis roll-off or do you expect a flat off-axis response? What ‘exactly’ does a reverse null plot even show? Move the microphone an inch in any direction and a steep and clean reverse null plot completely falls apart. How does a complex impedance plot determine loudspeaker accuracy (provided it is clean from wrinkles) or port tube air velocity for that matter (which will peak at port tuning, not at an arbitrary number.) I have spent 27+ years professionally evaluating loudspeaker measurements and in this time I have developed a suite of measurements that I feel offer keen insight into loudspeaker accuracy. These include soundpower response, various on- and off-axis measurements and various weighted average comparisons, both anechoic and first and even second reflections (all of our measurements are time domain based.)

    Every designer will have their personal opinion as to which measurements matter and which don’t – and ultimately, the market will determine if we got it right or wrong. Based on how many loudspeakers I have personally designed and sold in my too many years in this industry, I can say without hesitation that we got something right

    Our standard suite of measurements will be posted soon.

    All that said, our Sierra Towers and many of the other loudspeakers you are considering are very different from your Klipsch RF7-II. Obviously, there is something about them you are not quite happy with and I would be happy to discuss with you to determine if our products offer what you are looking for.
    David, well stated excluding the fact that those mfg's. I posted did do Anechoic Chamber Plots for On/Off Axis FR measurements, and listening window averages, and we look forward to viewing your Standard Suite of Measurement plots for your Towers.

    I am sure your Towers are Great, otherwise I would not be asking these questions, let alone even looking at Ascend Acoustics.

    Many buyers of speakers only go by what they hear, and some textual data w/o any plots from the chamber or for that matter anywhere, as you are certainly aware of.

    Yes, your right on, I am very Unhappy with Klipsch speakers, as all the measurements I have seen are like +/- 5.2db even On-Axis !! I am looking for a truely Accurate Reference Speaker that the measurements will prove it is.

    We will be looking for those Measurement posts upcoming, and Thank You.

    Cheers,
    Dennis

  3. #13
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Now, KEF/REVEL Salons/Linkwitz-Orions/Philharmonic Audio --- you can get all their Measured Plots from the chamber -- that says one heck of a lot -- Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    David, well stated excluding the fact that those mfg's. I posted did do Anechoic Chamber Plots for On/Off Axis FR measurements, and listening window averages, and we look forward to viewing your Standard Suite of Measurement plots for your Towers.
    Actually, I don't think Linkwitz-Orion or Philharmonic use an actual anechoic chamber, but get pseudo anechoic measurements via gated responses.
    -curtis

  4. #14
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Yes, your right on, I am very Unhappy with Klipsch speakers, as all the measurements I have seen are like +/- 5.2db even On-Axis !! I am looking for a truely Accurate Reference Speaker that the measurements will prove it is.
    Why did you purchase the Klipsch speakers?
    -curtis

  5. #15
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Actually, I don't think Linkwitz-Orion or Philharmonic use an actual anechoic chamber, but get pseudo anechoic measurements via gated responses.
    Curtis, not so per Philharmonic Audio PH3's web site, it specifically states above 200Hz. and explains why, and are "Anechoic" measurements. Read down under Freq. Response and Impedance Measurements on the first page.

    Also, for a $3K pair of speakers, there are about 15 Plots or so for a potential buyer to digest. Extensive data is shown (approx. 15 or so Plots) even for their Phil 1 and 2's at around $2K/Pair.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Why did you purchase the Klipsch speakers?
    Brand Name that I thought was great when I compared them to a few other speakers in that price range back then.

    Audio is a learning curve, like living life is. Some learn, some don't ever. Hopefully, most read and learn.

    Do you see any plots for Klipsch RF-7II's at $3.2K/Pair? There should be for that much money.

    I am setting the Klipsch's aside, and they will be replaced with "Accurate Reference Speakers" in the near term -- the question is what Mfg. and Model number.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Why did you purchase the Klipsch speakers?
    Curtis, what Mfg. and Model are you running for your Front Main Stereo Towers or ?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Curtis, not so per Philharmonic Audio PH3's web site, it specifically states above 200Hz. and explains why, and are "Anechoic" measurements. Read down under Freq. Response and Impedance Measurements on the first page.

    Also, for a $3K pair of speakers, there are about 15 Plots or so for a potential buyer to digest. Extensive data is shown (approx. 15 or so Plots) even for their Phil 1 and 2's at around $2K/Pair.
    That's because gated pseudo-anechoic measurements are only good down to about 200hz. They do not use an actual chamber. You should ask that question specifically.

    I am not saying it is bad, just that you are incorrect in stating that they use an actual chamber.
    -curtis

  9. #19
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Brand Name that I thought was great when I compared them to a few other speakers in that price range back then.

    Audio is a learning curve, like living life is. Some learn, some don't ever. Hopefully, most read and learn.

    Do you see any plots for Klipsch RF-7II's at $3.2K/Pair? There should be for that much money.

    I am setting the Klipsch's aside, and they will be replaced with "Accurate Reference Speakers" in the near term -- the question is what Mfg. and Model number.
    Like David mentioned in his post, you need to define accuracy.
    -curtis

  10. #20
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Curtis, what Mfg. and Model are you running for your Front Main Stereo Towers or ?
    I don't use towers...I use Sierra 1's.
    -curtis

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