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Thread: denpuresound's quest for speakers

  1. #1
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Ascent Tower w/ the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter -- where are the Anechoic Chamber measured Plots?

    Before I spend 1,000's of dollars just for FRONTS (FL/FR) I want to see the "Anechoic Chamber" measurement plots for On and Off Axis responses, Reverse Null, Complex Impedance Plot, System Bass Response, Woofer and Port Response, Overall System Output at say 40-50 Watts (SPL vs. Freq.), and lastly Port Air Velocity Percentage (Hopefully less than 5% of the speed of sound) which will peak at lower freq's. usually around 20-30 Hz.

    Forget the quotes, they sound good, they are nice and smooth... the actual measurements will "TELL THE STORY" regarding how good of an Audiophile Speaker they are.

    Forget Klipsch/Def. Tech./B&W, as they have no measured plots out there that they will give the potential buyer!!

    Now, KEF/REVEL Salons/Linkwitz-Orions/Philharmonic Audio --- you can get all their Measured Plots from the chamber -- that says one heck of a lot -- Period.

    Bottom line, I want ACCURATE Speakers -- so let's see the measured DATA from the Chamber.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Hi, welcome to the forum. Dave & Ascend are usually very good at providing a wealth of data, as you can see in this forum and on the site.

    I am confident Davef will provide as many graphs of such as possible when he is able. Making requests for additional data he hasn't provided with previous models is apropos. Demanding he do so is a bit rude.

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Ascent Tower w/ the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter -- where are the Anechoic Chamber measured Plots?

    Before I spend 1,000's of dollars just for FRONTS (FL/FR) I want to see the "Anechoic Chamber" measurement plots for On and Off Axis responses, Reverse Null, Complex Impedance Plot, System Bass Response, Woofer and Port Response, Overall System Output at say 40-50 Watts (SPL vs. Freq.), and lastly Port Air Velocity Percentage (Hopefully less than 5% of the speed of sound) which will peak at lower freq's. usually around 20-30 Hz.

    Forget the quotes, they sound good, they are nice and smooth... the actual measurements will "TELL THE STORY" regarding how good of an Audiophile Speaker they are.

    Forget Klipsch/Def. Tech./B&W, as they have no measured plots out there that they will give the potential buyer!!

    Now, KEF/REVEL Salons/Linkwitz-Orions/Philharmonic Audio --- you can get all their Measured Plots from the chamber -- that says one heck of a lot -- Period.

    Bottom line, I want ACCURATE Speakers -- so let's see the measured DATA from the Chamber.
    Jon O.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Excuse you.. I am not Rude , but a true "ULTIMATE AUDIOPHILE" - being in this business for over 35 years, and the specs/plots will speak for themselves!

    I am not stating that Ascend has to produce plots, but w/o them it is like "Guessing" totally, whether or not the Towers are ACCURATE or not, and that is FACT.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Lol. OKAY THEN.

    Edit - Disregard me, please continue.
    Last edited by Jonnyozero3; 10-27-2011 at 09:21 AM. Reason: edits
    Jon O.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    I would also encourage you to call or email Dave. You two would probably have a lot to talk about.
    -curtis

  6. #6
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Curtis,

    Thank you.

    Dave is aware of my requests, and I am sure he will address the Measured Plot Data as his time allows.

    I am very curious how the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter performs above the Xover, and whether the speaker overall on/off axis is Accurate.

    Is Dave using a 4th Order Linkwitz-Riley (LR4) 24db/octave for Xovers, or 2nd Order 12db/octave LR2 design?

    Regards,
    Dennis

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Curtis,

    Thank you.

    Dave is aware of my requests, and I am sure he will address the Measured Plot Data as his time allows.

    I am very curious how the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter performs above the Xover, and whether the speaker overall on/off axis is Accurate.

    Is Dave using a 4th Order Linkwitz-Riley (LR4) 24db/octave for Xovers, or 2nd Order 12db/octave LR2 design?
    Then why did you make your initial post?

    The crossover is a variable slope, so I am not sure if it fits in either of those two designs. Have you read the information I linked to OPPIX?
    -curtis

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Then why did you make your initial post?

    The crossover is a variable slope, so I am not sure if it fits in either of those two designs. Have you read the information I linked to OPPIX?
    Posts were prior to talking to Ascend. and YES I read the OPPIX data posts. Thank you.

    Is this OPPIX basically a Patented Design for Xovers or and Active Xover design in terms that ALL CAN UNDERSTAND.

    I guess with OPPIX implemented then ALL THE FACTS WILL PROVE OUT, when the Anechoic Chamber plot data for On and Off Axis measurements substantiates it.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2006
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    I think it's a reasonable request before spending $$ on towers and RAAL upgrade. Any new buyer would want to see this information.

    On the other hand the FR gets totally skewed in home environment:-) even with room correction software :-( I have the FR graphs that are accompanied with each speaker and they are impressive. The REW graphs look totally different though. Of course, I'm measuring the FR using RadioShack meter as opposed to obscenely expensive microphones.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Ascent Tower w/ the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter -- where are the Anechoic Chamber measured Plots?

    Before I spend 1,000's of dollars just for FRONTS (FL/FR) I want to see the "Anechoic Chamber" measurement plots for On and Off Axis responses, Reverse Null, Complex Impedance Plot, System Bass Response, Woofer and Port Response, Overall System Output at say 40-50 Watts (SPL vs. Freq.), and lastly Port Air Velocity Percentage (Hopefully less than 5% of the speed of sound) which will peak at lower freq's. usually around 20-30 Hz.

    Forget the quotes, they sound good, they are nice and smooth... the actual measurements will "TELL THE STORY" regarding how good of an Audiophile Speaker they are.

    Forget Klipsch/Def. Tech./B&W, as they have no measured plots out there that they will give the potential buyer!!

    Now, KEF/REVEL Salons/Linkwitz-Orions/Philharmonic Audio --- you can get all their Measured Plots from the chamber -- that says one heck of a lot -- Period.

    Bottom line, I want ACCURATE Speakers -- so let's see the measured DATA from the Chamber.
    Quote Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
    Excuse you.. I am not Rude , but a true "ULTIMATE AUDIOPHILE" - being in this business for over 35 years, and the specs/plots will speak for themselves!

    I am not stating that Ascend has to produce plots, but w/o them it is like "Guessing" totally, whether or not the Towers are ACCURATE or not, and that is FACT.
    Wow – a lot of irony here. We were the first ID audio company to publish and promote detailed measurements and we were the first to send our products to the NRC for “TRUE” third party anechoic measurements.

    Dennis, I am pleased to hear that you are interested in our Sierra Towers. However, we are a friendly laid-back group here and your post comes across as demanding and a bit out of place. I, more than anyone, can understand your desire to see various measurements but you should also know that comparing “manufacturer” posted measurements is not completely reliable. Many of the measurements you mention are not conducted in an anechoic chamber and many still are just modeled simulations.

    If you browse our site and do a bit more reading, you will see extremely detailed and accurate measurements of all of our advertised loudspeakers. We use industry standard measurement gear, which includes two full MLSSA systems, reference grade ACO Pacific microphones and a fully automated turntable for taking accurate off-axis measurements. Our equipment is actually calibrated to the gear used at the NRC.

    Still, even with a full suite of measurements – you will not be able to determine which is the more “accurate” loudspeaker. For example, what do you consider to be an accurate off-axis response? Do you expect a gentle and linear off-axis roll-off or do you expect a flat off-axis response? What ‘exactly’ does a reverse null plot even show? Move the microphone an inch in any direction and a steep and clean reverse null plot completely falls apart. How does a complex impedance plot determine loudspeaker accuracy (provided it is clean from wrinkles) or port tube air velocity for that matter (which will peak at port tuning, not at an arbitrary number.) I have spent 27+ years professionally evaluating loudspeaker measurements and in this time I have developed a suite of measurements that I feel offer keen insight into loudspeaker accuracy. These include soundpower response, various on- and off-axis measurements and various weighted average comparisons, both anechoic and first and even second reflections (all of our measurements are time domain based.)

    Every designer will have their personal opinion as to which measurements matter and which don’t – and ultimately, the market will determine if we got it right or wrong. Based on how many loudspeakers I have personally designed and sold in my too many years in this industry, I can say without hesitation that we got something right

    Our standard suite of measurements will be posted soon.

    All that said, our Sierra Towers and many of the other loudspeakers you are considering are very different from your Klipsch RF7-II. Obviously, there is something about them you are not quite happy with and I would be happy to discuss with you to determine if our products offer what you are looking for.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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