Page 221 of 271 FirstFirst ... 216217218219220221222223224225226 ... LastLast
Results 2,201 to 2,210 of 2707

Thread: The Tower Discussion Thread!

  1. #2201
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    I tend to listen with and without a sub as the mood moves me. I have dual Outlaw X13's that are actually really good for music.

    I like to rotate through a couple of pairs of vintage speakers I have that I generally don't use subs with that I am very familiar with, and so usually when I get new speakers the first thing I do is listen to them in the same manner as those.

  2. #2202
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Mark, I just took delivery of a pair of RAAL towers as well, and I'm enjoying them very much. Would love to hear any listening impressions you could share on how yours compare with the Song 3A. It was the only other speaker I was interested in but went with the Towers because I just couldn't find much info on the Salks in terms of their sound.

  3. #2203
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Well, I knew someone on here or another forum would ask this, and quite frankly, I don't have an "audiophile" level answer.

    The speakers are different but basically have these things in common:
    • They both use a RAAL tweeter, although the Ascend uses a different model according to them.
    • They both are 3 way speakers.
    • They are both ported, although the SALK is ported in the front, at least mine is.
    • Both companies were a pleasure to deal with. Salk was a little different because I wasn't sure what I wanted so Jim helped me narrow in on the Song3a. There was some WAF involved here to, but not with the Ascends, I just got what I wanted for my room by ordering online. Dina has been great to work with.


    The differences are really considerable, and the reason I'm not going to really compare or say that one is better than the other, except to say that I listen to them in totally different environments in with different equipment.
    The Ascends are in my dedicated theater with wall treatments and low ceilings. My seating area is fairly close 7/8 feet. The finish is very nice, I have the black matte bamboo. I would probably consider my listening style as fairly near field in this room. I have some damage to my hearing at my age, and I find that I can listen to these at much lower volumes than the EMPteks that they replace which my family will appreciate. I assume this is because of the higher resolution from the tweeter and midrange drivers. My equipment in this system is probably above average for a theater, Yamaha CX-A5111/MA-5000, Oppo 203, Bluesound node 2, Thorens TD-145 through a Graham Slee stage.

    The Salks are in my living room upstairs attached to the kitchen much larger room with 10' ceilings, no room treatments. They are a larger and heavier speaker. Finish is furniture grade, statement level, pretty much 5 month wait, but worth it. Electronics in this system are different, more of an old school analog bent- Yamaha A-S2100 integrated (more powerful, refined and just better than the HT amp), Oppo 205, Thorens Td-147 Jubilee, Bluesoud Vault 2. No phono stage as the one in the integrated is just a good as the Slee in my downstairs system as far as I can tell.
    Here is what I'll say:
    • The bass is about the same, not better, but different with one larger driver and the much larger and heavier cabinet.
    • The mids are about the same but have a different sound signature.
    • They seem to be a little more efficient, at least they don't seem to work as hard to me, but that is probably because they were designed in a different manner.


    I don't have any intention of carrying the ascends up to the LR or the Salks down to theater to hear them side by side, mostly because I bought each for different reasons and different times and I am happy with both. Also, a big part of my decision to buy Ascend's was the Horizon center which will be doing most of the work in my theater anyway and it's reputation as pretty much the best somewhat affordable center channel, and I wanted RAAL too.

    Needless to say, I think I'll be pretty happy with both systems and it'll be several years before I think about upgrading speakers in either room.

  4. #2204
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SouthWest of Cleveland
    Posts
    1,924

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGraz View Post
    Well, I knew someone on here or another forum would ask this, and quite frankly, I don't have an "audiophile" level answer.

    The speakers are different but basically have these things in common:
    • They both use a RAAL tweeter, although the Ascend uses a different model according to them.
    • They both are 3 way speakers.
    • They are both ported, although the SALK is ported in the front, at least mine is.
    • Both companies were a pleasure to deal with. Salk was a little different because I wasn't sure what I wanted so Jim helped me narrow in on the Song3a. There was some WAF involved here to, but not with the Ascends, I just got what I wanted for my room by ordering online. Dina has been great to work with.


    The differences are really considerable, and the reason I'm not going to really compare or say that one is better than the other, except to say that I listen to them in totally different environments in with different equipment.
    The Ascends are in my dedicated theater with wall treatments and low ceilings. My seating area is fairly close 7/8 feet. The finish is very nice, I have the black matte bamboo. I would probably consider my listening style as fairly near field in this room. I have some damage to my hearing at my age, and I find that I can listen to these at much lower volumes than the EMPteks that they replace which my family will appreciate. I assume this is because of the higher resolution from the tweeter and midrange drivers. My equipment in this system is probably above average for a theater, Yamaha CX-A5111/MA-5000, Oppo 203, Bluesound node 2, Thorens TD-145 through a Graham Slee stage.

    The Salks are in my living room upstairs attached to the kitchen much larger room with 10' ceilings, no room treatments. They are a larger and heavier speaker. Finish is furniture grade, statement level, pretty much 5 month wait, but worth it. Electronics in this system are different, more of an old school analog bent- Yamaha A-S2100 integrated (more powerful, refined and just better than the HT amp), Oppo 205, Thorens Td-147 Jubilee, Bluesoud Vault 2. No phono stage as the one in the integrated is just a good as the Slee in my downstairs system as far as I can tell.
    Here is what I'll say:
    • The bass is about the same, not better, but different with one larger driver and the much larger and heavier cabinet.
    • The mids are about the same but have a different sound signature.
    • They seem to be a little more efficient, at least they don't seem to work as hard to me, but that is probably because they were designed in a different manner.


    I don't have any intention of carrying the ascends up to the LR or the Salks down to theater to hear them side by side, mostly because I bought each for different reasons and different times and I am happy with both. Also, a big part of my decision to buy Ascend's was the Horizon center which will be doing most of the work in my theater anyway and it's reputation as pretty much the best somewhat affordable center channel, and I wanted RAAL too.

    Needless to say, I think I'll be pretty happy with both systems and it'll be several years before I think about upgrading speakers in either room.

    So, based on that, despite the Salks using a very expensive midrange, a smaller version of the RAAL....similar to the one used in the Sierra-2, more costly finish work, costing a substantial amount more than the Ascends overall with a pretty long wait time, Dave has pretty much equaled their performance. Does that sum it up?
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  5. #2205
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    So, based on that, despite the Salks using a very expensive midrange, a smaller version of the RAAL....similar to the one used in the Sierra-2, more costly finish work, costing a substantial amount more than the Ascends overall with a pretty long wait time, Dave has pretty much equaled their performance. Does that sum it up?
    I haven't had enough experience with the Ascends to say that. Actually, since the Sierra towers have been around a lot longer than the Song3's it might be the other way around. I think they are both relatively bargains based on what I've seen in the marketplace. The Song3's would be physically too big for my theater setup.
    Knock test on the Bamboo cab's is really cool I will admit. As solid as my Yamaha NS1000's. That's saying something.

    I am really happy with the towers, wish the center would get here soon so I can complete this project.

  6. #2206
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SouthWest of Cleveland
    Posts
    1,924

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGraz View Post
    I haven't had enough experience with the Ascends to say that. Actually, since the Sierra towers have been around a lot longer than the Song3's it might be the other way around. I think they are both relatively bargains based on what I've seen in the marketplace. The Song3's would be physically too big for my theater setup.
    Knock test on the Bamboo cab's is really cool I will admit. As solid as my Yamaha NS1000's. That's saying something.

    I am really happy with the towers, wish the center would get here soon so I can complete this project.
    Ah, right, fair point. The RAAL used in the Song3 was developed from the larger one used in the Ascend tower for use in the Sierra-2. The one in the Song3 is a variant of the one proprietary to Ascend, and is available to the general public through an agreement between Ascend and RAAL to offset development costs of the smaller RAAL. Not sure what makes the two different, but Dave did not let some of his secret sauce get into the offshoot version.

    I'd like to be able to compare the various speakers using the RAAL tweeters. I'm sure they are more alike than not.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  7. #2207
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Ah, right, fair point. The RAAL used in the Song3 was developed from the larger one used in the Ascend tower for use in the Sierra-2. The one in the Song3 is a variant of the one proprietary to Ascend, and is available to the general public through an agreement between Ascend and RAAL to offset development costs of the smaller RAAL. Not sure what makes the two different, but Dave did not let some of his secret sauce get into the offshoot version.

    I'd like to be able to compare the various speakers using the RAAL tweeters. I'm sure they are more alike than not.
    They are just different speakers. I'm sure the RAAL are fairly comparable. Because I haven't heard the stock mids in the Song3's I really can't comment that the Accuton's are any better than those either. I took Jim Salk's advice on that and ordered mine before he went to Apoxna with the Song3a's last year. We talked about what I had for speakers in my 2 channel (Yamaha NS1000 and Jbl Horizon 166) and what I liked about each. Needless to say, I don't rock out on the JBL's anymore really, but I like 3 way speakers and midrange is what attracts me in speakers.
    When upgrading my theater I new what I wanted, and I wanted the RAAL's, I wanted 3 way, and I wanted a great center channel. I didn't talk to Dave, probably should have, but by seeing what the drivers were, comments both here, on AVS, Audioholics, and Audiogon, I felt pretty sure this was the way to go.

  8. #2208
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SouthWest of Cleveland
    Posts
    1,924

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGraz View Post
    They are just different speakers. I'm sure the RAAL are fairly comparable. Because I haven't heard the stock mids in the Song3's I really can't comment that the Accuton's are any better than those either. I took Jim Salk's advice on that and ordered mine before he went to Apoxna with the Song3a's last year. We talked about what I had for speakers in my 2 channel (Yamaha NS1000 and Jbl Horizon 166) and what I liked about each. Needless to say, I don't rock out on the JBL's anymore really, but I like 3 way speakers and midrange is what attracts me in speakers.
    When upgrading my theater I new what I wanted, and I wanted the RAAL's, I wanted 3 way, and I wanted a great center channel. I didn't talk to Dave, probably should have, but by seeing what the drivers were, comments both here, on AVS, Audioholics, and Audiogon, I felt pretty sure this was the way to go.
    I would be very happy with the system you are assembling!

    As for my comments regarding the history of the RAAL, since Dave is a humble, subdued individual, I felt compelled to shine some light on one of his big contributions to the audio world. It's fantastic that these speaker companies have a cost effective option to use a true ribbon (RAAL) tweeter in speakers that would've cost a good deal more prior to the smaller RAAL's development. This would not be the case if it were not for the combined efforts of Dave and RAAL. I suggested to Dave that he protect future products so his competition could not compete so easily, but I think he'd rather see more products available to more customers and take satisfaction that he helped enable that.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  9. #2209
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    I would be very happy with the system you are assembling!

    As for my comments regarding the history of the RAAL, since Dave is a humble, subdued individual, I felt compelled to shine some light on one of his big contributions to the audio world. It's fantastic that these speaker companies have a cost effective option to use a true ribbon (RAAL) tweeter in speakers that would've cost a good deal more prior to the smaller RAAL's development. This would not be the case if it were not for the combined efforts of Dave and RAAL. I suggested to Dave that he protect future products so his competition could not compete so easily, but I think he'd rather see more products available to more customers and take satisfaction that he helped enable that.
    I totally at agree with all you said above, thanks for the history behind the design, and you are correct, Dave should be vigilant in protecting his intellectual property.

  10. #2210
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: The Tower Discussion Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGraz View Post
    I totally at agree with all you said above, thanks for the history behind the design, and you are correct, Dave should be vigilant in protecting his intellectual property.
    Happy to hear that you are enjoying the towers and that they are comparing nicely against your Song 3A's. I believe the Song 3A's are ~ $4K pair so that is saying a lot...

    Just wanted to clarify a few things... The RAAL we are using in our towers is a slightly customized version of the RAAL 70-20xr with the amorphous core transformer combined with a custom faceplate that I designed and was then carried over to our Sierra-2 tweeter. The ribbon in the Song 3A is the 64-10, a great tweeter but a significant step down from the RAAL 70-20xr and much less expensive. What makes the 70-20xr so amazing isn't just the additional radiating area (which is more than double) - it is the unique way RAAL is damping the diaphragm, which is something I am under an NDA regarding the details of. There is very little in common between the RAAL 70-20 and the 64-10, other than they are both true ribbon tweeters and made by RAAL.

    With that in mind, the 64-10 is an offshoot of our custom Sierra-2 tweeter (there are differences and they are not interchangeable) There was great expense in the development of our Sierra-2 tweeter, literally dozens of different samples and loads of man hours involved on both ends. Aleks gave me the opportunity to keep the tweeter entirely exclusive to us, which due to the development expenses, we would have had to commit to a specific amount of volume per quarter. At the time, the number was scary and I was hesitant to commit. Aleks understood, so we agreed that an OEM version would be released (what is now the 64-10 etc)

    Seemed like a fair and reasonable compromise to me so we agreed to it... RAAL is a small company and it is important in this industry to also help our vendors -- and this agreement worked out well for them and we have done well with our Sierra-2 as well. Win-Win if you ask me - because if we were not able to maintain the volume RAAL wanted with exclusivity -- it would have been a big issue for RAAL (who knows if they would have recovered) and also for us.

    Hope this clarifies!
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •