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Thread: NrT upgrade completed!

  1. #61
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    I am not sure how conclusive that is. That is very specific area of measurement done by different people, environments, and equipment.

    It seems you were having problems with specific recordings, how do the Polks sound with recordings where you were not having issues?
    -curtis

  2. #62
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    I still think that to get a better idea of the real problem, you should be comparing to the Sierras to more expensive and hopefully accurate/neutral speakers, than cheaper and significantly worst measuring/performing speakers...

    Using worst speakers you'll most likely hear less of the true recording... You don't really want to know if worst speakers can sound better, or if you don't hear something on them, but if you can truly hear that harshness on good/better speakers also, which would again demonstrate that the issue is the recording and not the speakers... Not hearing the same thing on worst speakers doesn't really demonstrate anything...

    And damn, custom crossover to fit your particular taste/listening, you're one lucky guy! Try that with any other company!

  3. #63
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Quote Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
    I still think that to get a better idea of the real problem, you should be comparing to the Sierras to more expensive and hopefully accurate/neutral speakers, than cheaper and significantly worst measuring/performing speakers...
    Okay, so which speakers do you suggest? My other system in my house has Martin Logan Vantage ESL speakers. Do they qualify?

  4. #64
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Okay here's a different exercise.

    Sitting at my computer. Signal source is Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 Firewire interface out to KRK Rokit 5 powered monitors on Aurelex Mopads. Sitting with my head dead center about 2 feet from speakers. Using MediaMonkey software and accessing same server source files used in the rest of my house systems. Play a track with prominent guitar (Bill Bruford Feels Good to Me - Allan Holdsworth). Listen flat with no equalization. Track sounds fine as it always has for the last 30 years. Engage equalizer. It has settings at 2k and 4k. Boost the 2k and 4k each by 4 db. All other frequencies are flat. Play track again and guitar is much louder in the mix and piercing in quality. Same effect I hear with my Sierra-1 Nrt's.

    Maybe I should upload a couple of music samples one flat and one with boost at 2k-4k or 3k-4k so people can then actually hear what I am hearing?

    -CB

  5. #65
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Quote Originally Posted by ctbarker32 View Post
    Okay here's a different exercise.

    Sitting at my computer. Signal source is Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 Firewire interface out to KRK Rokit 5 powered monitors on Aurelex Mopads. Sitting with my head dead center about 2 feet from speakers. Using MediaMonkey software and accessing same server source files used in the rest of my house systems. Play a track with prominent guitar (Bill Bruford Feels Good to Me - Allan Holdsworth). Listen flat with no equalization. Track sounds fine as it always has for the last 30 years. Engage equalizer. It has settings at 2k and 4k. Boost the 2k and 4k each by 4 db. All other frequencies are flat. Play track again and guitar is much louder in the mix and piercing in quality. Same effect I hear with my Sierra-1 Nrt's.

    Maybe I should upload a couple of music samples one flat and one with boost at 2k-4k or 3k-4k so people can then actually hear what I am hearing?

    -CB
    Can you upload the original in FLAC format somewhere? I don't own NrT's yet...but I would like to hear.

    So, if you lower the overall volume by 3-4dB, do you still hear the harshness? At what volume level do you begin to hear the issue?
    -curtis

  6. #66
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Can you upload the original in FLAC format somewhere? I don't own NrT's yet...but I would like to hear.

    So, if you lower the overall volume by 3-4dB, do you still hear the harshness? At what volume level do you begin to hear the issue?
    I should be able to accomplish this. I'll create some sound samples illustrating what I am hearing and then figure out a location to store them for you to access.

    The actual volume level that I typically listen is in the 75 db to 85 db area. I don't think I go much above that except rarely. I would say this is moderately loud but not insanely loud.

    I will let you know.

    -CB

  7. #67
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Quote Originally Posted by ctbarker32 View Post
    The actual volume level that I typically listen is in the 75 db to 85 db area. I don't think I go much above that except rarely. I would say this is moderately loud but not insanely loud.
    So you are having the issue at this listening level, if the overall listening level by lowered by 4dB, does this piercing/harshness go away?

    I can also get the disc as well...just won't happen soon.
    Last edited by curtis; 02-12-2011 at 02:57 PM.
    -curtis

  8. #68
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Everything Ct says is circa right.

    The upgrade, was not up.

    Forget the room or room correction or the More Revealing or I was sent a bad speaker set. Because none of this applies. I have dedicated treated rooms (in two homes, one in each), expensive speakers, equipment, tube equipment, amps ect...

    Everyone can hear it, including my cleaning lady with her tin, (vacuum cleaners too loud), ears.

    It brought a transistor beach radio sound to the top end. Period!


    It turned the Sierra-1 into something I would never buy, if I had heard them first.

    The originals are near perfect for the money. Which I also have.

    I would not want to encourage Dave to go in this direction, as I am sure he has a lot of yes people around him, as most of us do.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    I guess having both versions available is a good thing. Dave himself stated that the NrT version would not be to everyone's liking.

    After seeing the stage production of South Pacific last night, and hearing the live sound/singing, I am even happier with my NrT sound!
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  10. #70
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    King: Your crazy! (Not an insult if spelled wrong )

    You guys got me curious and had me digging out my ECM8000 microphone. The NrT response is pretty damn flat... Definitely no spike in the 5k region, bit higher the highs can go up a little depending on mic placement and distance, but these are in-room measurements, I definitely don't see anything, nor hear, anything which looks or sound off... (unlike other speakers I've had in there...)

    It turned the Sierra-1 into something I would never buy, if I had heard them first.

    The originals are near perfect for the money. Which I also have.
    I'll have to disagree here... Not with the claim that for you the originals are near perfect, but that the originals are better than the NrTs... Yeah, the originals are quite neat, and quite good for the money, BUT, the NrTs are more revealing and more detailed speakers. Maybe that's bad for some, but objectively, they're definitely better...

    I won't argue subjective taste, but again, I'd say compare the original Sierras to the top of the line speakers from other companies. For example: JMLabs Utopia, Dynaudio C1, Paradigm's Sigs, B&W 805s, etc. I'm sure you'll notice more similarities between NrTs than originals... The originals were always a touch laid back and although their resolution was very good for 1000$, it still ended a bit short vs no holds barred speakers, which was fine given their price tag... The NrTs are a definite upgrade in that area.

    Ok, I can't talk about your particular pair, or about your other "expensive speakers" (which are what btw?), but doing the exercise of going out to listen to more expensive speakers, you'd probably see a trend of the better speakers sounding more like the NrTs and less like the originals...

    Every year I hear dozens and dozens of ridiculously expensive speakers, and after, when I get home, am usually quite satisfied for what the <1000$ originals offer in performance. Ridiculously, sounds better than many rooms out there... BUT, one thing they do lack vs ridiculously expensive speakers, is detail and resolution... Which is perfectly fine for 1000$ and the fact that they do pretty much everything quite well, but vs the best show setups, it's probably the one thing which I found was somewhat missing... That last layer of detail, realism...

    The NrTs definitely improve that, and also moves the soundstage a bit forward. For me, that's a plus, and it brings the Sierras much closer to those killer killer setups, which ironically too often aren't huge 100000$ speakers...

    IMHO, it's all about garbage in, garbage out... If your record is great, it'll sound great... If not, then the NrTs will expose their shortcomings more than the original Sierras... Is that good? Bad? It's the price to pay for their added resolution...


    Had this typed before but don't think I had posted it...
    The Danny Gatton recording sounds fine on my Martin Logan Vantages and my KRK Rokit 5 nearfield monitors playing the exact same FLAC files from my server.
    2$ on recording

    Martin Logan... Hmmm.... I don't know if electrostatics are the best reference... I'd point more towards similar dynamic speakers like JMLabs Utopias, Dynaudios, or whatever uses a high end tweeter... It's just that eletrostatics sound so different... KRKs again isn't the best reference, there's better studio monitors out there, probably aren't as resolving as the NrTs...

    Too bad I couldn't find measurements on the Vantages, but ML aren't a 100% chance of being perfectly flat and being 100% accurate in room...
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...rements-part-2
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...r-measurements
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...r-measurements
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...rements-part-2

    To me, they're in a different class than dynamic speakers, and sound different. I wouldn't attribute any of their sound attribute to be superior/inferior to dynamic speakers... Not hearing the sibilance or not hearing it the same way vs dynamic, I wouldn't say it says much... I dunno... They all can sound very different too lol Magnepan 20.1 vs smaller ML are significantly different... Again, I'd just compare to the top high end 2 way speakers out there.

    Anecdotal evidence... Not sure how much you guys like JMLabs Utopia Be speakers, but it would be an example for me of a speaker which is way above the Sierra's league... Definitely a reference for me. Sounded fantastic every single time I've heard them. Sorry Ascend... Only about ten or twelve times the price of the Sierras too... But it's definitely one of those speakers which raises its chin and pompously walks away vs Sierras, and listening to the originals and thinking about the Labs, you think yep... Not the same... Not the same at all...

    Dire Straits for example won't have the 'twang' on the originals vs Labs, the guitar 'attack', just world of a difference... That slight recessed sound + detail difference, just doesn't sound the same at all... but hey, <1000 vs 10000$? Can you do better around the 1000$ budget? I don't think so... Well, the NrTs, to me, sound much more like the JMLabs, and for what, 300$ upgrade?! Just f'ing crazy... So sorry King, but no... The Sierra is not a better speaker, and the NrT is definitely a speaker I'd buy instead of the Sierra... But, YMMV

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