NrT upgrade completed!

[GirgleMirt]

Also noticed this sibilance talked about earlier on a few occasions, but again I'd blame the recording and not the speakers.

A particular striking and quite obvious example:

Ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMPIbx6SU5o
1m40

I hear it too on my comp setup, but at a lesser level as the speakers are much less revealing...

I'm no recording engineer, but I believe it's due to the microphone, you often see artists in studio using a sort of 'disk' in between themselves and the microphone, I bet they didn't use one or used some poor mics or something...

Ah yes, quick google:

Sibilance is the term for harsh "sss" or "sh" sounds in a vocal recording. There are a few ways of dealing with the problem:

Before recording: Look for microphones with a "flat" response, which tend to suppress sibilance. Many high-end vocal mics deal with the problem with larger diaphragms and other built-in components that moderate these specific signals. You can also run the microphone through signal processor that features a "de-esser," which you can adjust to cut sibilance.

During recording: Experiment with the microphone's position relative to the speaker/singer. Often backing the microphone away a bit, angling it down, or having the person sing slightly to one side of it will reduce the sound energy that's causing the sibilance to begin with.

After recording: If your vocal track features too much sibilance, you can use sound editing software to reduce it. Be careful, though - just cutting the sibilance frequency (around 8 kHz) across the board can deaden the sound of the track. For optimal results, identify the specific areas on the waveform which sibilance is a problem and selective cut the 8 kHz volume in those areas.

Remember, too, that your sibilance problem will be different with each performer. There's no "one-size-fits-all" solution for every recording situation.

Again, it's not because you hear something on some speakers that it's invariably a flaw of that speaker... Now I'll admit that on my different setups (headphones, speakers), it's definitely most obvious on the NrTs, but at the same time the NrTs are my most resolving playback device... But since the big majority of recordings sound ok and only a few seem to stick out like sore thumbs, my take is that recordings are much more at fault than the speakers...

[edmondwolfman]

I've been on hold for a while but have been waiting for the towers to come available. I'm in the market for new speakers because on some music my Axiom M60v2s sound harsh. They have the titanium tweeters. Don't get me wrong, they don't sound harsh all the time, actually they sound quite good on some music but music in the higher range, some female voices, high pitched guitar get a little fatiguing. What I'm seeing from a lot of you here that have done the Sierra-1 upgrade is starting to scare me a little as I hear the word harsh a lot and since the towers use the same tweeter as the Sierra NrTs I'm thinking they may be harsh to my ears also as that is what I'm trying to get away from.

I'll keep watching here for more posts/information but I need something that doesn't replace sometimes harsh with sometimes harsh.

Thanks for everyones' input, keep it coming.

[Mag_Neato]

I would not call it harsh. The difference between the NrT dome and the Axiom is that the Axiom is metal and the Ascend is a soft dome. The harshness typically associated with metal domes is a result of the metal domes' tendancy at certain frequencies to ring, which is heard as harshness. the fabric dome tweeter does not suffer from this trait. the standard Sierra-1 tweeter stayed smooth and behaved, but in comparison to a metal dome, and now the NrT, does not produce as detailed and airy a sound. While the new NrT tweeter can approach the detail of the metal domes, it does not get harsh like a metal dome. I suspect what people are experiencing with the NrT is that it's increased high frequency reproduction is so great that it is exposing poor recording methods or simply the true sound of certain instruments and vocals. These better resolved sounds are then interpreted by listeners as a defect of the new tweeter.

I find the NrT upgrade has done much more than simply improve the high end response. It has improved midrange presence/clarity/impact and better imaging as well. Unfortunately, if the recording has a high degree of sibilance(The exaggerated "SSSS" sound) then it will be much more apparent.

[RicardoJoa]

A suggestion to CB, have you ever thought about driving the sierra nrt with a different amp and see if you would still hear the siblance or whatever you are hearing. I'm not trying to imply that it could be a problem with the amp, but im sure different amp do make the sound different.

[ctbarker32]

A suggestion to CB, have you ever thought about driving the sierra nrt with a different amp and see if you would still hear the siblance or whatever you are hearing. I'm not trying to imply that it could be a problem with the amp, but im sure different amp do make the sound different.

Been there, done that. I substituted a McCormack DNA 0.5 Deluxe for my Emotiva. Not a shabby amp by any measure. Made zero difference to the sound of the Sierra-1 Nrt.

I've made more modifications to my system since the Nrt upgrade than at any other time. Slight changes in sound but still does not address the excess energy in the 3-4khz I am hearing on at least 20% of my recordings.

I am in direct discussions with DaveF via PM but there are week long delays in responses? So, things progress slowly.

-CB

[davef]

Been there, done that. I substituted a McCormack DNA 0.5 Deluxe for my Emotiva. Not a shabby amp by any measure. Made zero difference to the sound of the Sierra-1 Nrt.

I've made more modifications to my system since the Nrt upgrade than at any other time. Slight changes in sound but still does not address the excess energy in the 3-4khz I am hearing on at least 20% of my recordings.

I am in direct discussions with DaveF via PM but there are week long delays in responses? So, things progress slowly.

-CB

CB -- sorry for the delays.

I have been doing some extensive listening and measurements comparing the Sierra-1 NrT to the standard Sierra-1 and quite a few other highly regarded loudspeakers (using the source material you have recommended.) I am just not hearing nor am I able to measure what you are considering to be excess energy in that frequency range. Now, I will say that there is on average 2dB more output in this range compared to the standard Sierra-1.

Slight changes in sound but still does not address the excess energy in the 3-4khz I am hearing on at least 20% of my recordings.

You see, that is just it. Loudspeakers are linear devices, if you are hearing what you consider excess energy in that frequency range in some specific recordings, but not others (as you have shared with me, you are enjoying the NrT on these recordings), it is that those recordings have more information in that frequency range. As you know, loudspeakers can not selectively add more information to some recordings and not others (that would be very cool though )

There are far too many variables involved to give a specific reason why you hear this and others don't. All of us hear and process sounds differently, I suspect that you are more sensitive to this specific frequency range than others are. As a loudspeaker engineer, I would love to design the "perfect" speaker, one that everyone simply loves -- but that would be the same as being a chef and cooking a meal that every person who tastes it would enjoy (spicy or not spicy, salt or no salt, garlic, crunchy or soft, well done or rare?)

That being said, I have been working on something special for you that I am quite confident will be the perfect compromise. Since you like the highs that the NrT upgrade offers, it is a simple task for me to mod your crossover so that the lower range of the tweeter has the same energy as the standard Sierra-1, while keeping the improved high-frequency extension, detail and transient accuracy.

If this option interests you, please let me know ASAP.

Thanks!

[Galwin]

How's that for customer service?!

[Mag_Neato]

Always among the best CS around. To have a customized crossover made to address a sensitivity to certain frequencies by the owner is, without question, outstanding.

[Funambulistic]

That is totally awesome! I had an issue with my speakers last night that was resolved quickly and efficiently by Dina via Dave that took me by surprise (in a most pleasant way ) but this is an order of magnitude beyond "good customer service". Very cool!

[ctbarker32]

Hi Everyone,

I thought I would post some interesting developments regarding my comments about the mid-range of the Nrt upgrade.

I spoke with DaveF yesterday and we agreed I should send my Nrt crossovers to him for modification that would change the response of my Nrt's to match the original stock Sierra-1 in the critical 3khz-4khz range that I seem to be sensitive to. As others have rightly pointed out, this is absolutely outstanding customer service! DaveF deserves high praise for bending over backwards to please his customers. I delivered my crossovers to UPS today so DaveF should have them by the end of next week. Since we live on opposite coasts it will be a few weeks until I can sample the modified crossover.

In the meantime, I have gone into my closet of speakers and pulled out a replacement set of speakers to tide me over. The first speaker set I installed was an old set of Polk RT35i's. While obviously no match in any way to the Sierra-1's, they are reasonably pleasing to listen to and pretty good for a mass produced speaker of ten or more years ago.

I remembered that a sibling of my Polks, the RT25i, were favorably reviewed in Stereophile years ago (November 30, 2001) and thanks to the great archives now at Stereophile.com I could instantly pull up the review and most importantly the lab measurements. See Review at Stereophile.com. I believe that the RT25i and RT35i use the same tweeter.

First, I listened to some of the tracks that had bothered me with the Nrt's. The Bill Bruford Feels Good to Me album was first queued up. I had previously stated that when listening on the Nrt's and with the volume somewhat high to fully enjoy this record I found the guitar of Allan Holdsworth piercing and a bit hard to listen to. This was surprising to me because I had not experienced this with any previous speaker before. Now listening with the Polk RT35i the Allan Holdsworth guitar sounded correct and level appropriate in the mix as I always remembered it. No piercing. I then queued up the Danny Gatton album 88 Elmira Street. This orgy of Telecaster guitars is another example I cited to illustrate what I was hearing. Again, the mix now sounded correct to my ears and room and not piercing.

Lest anyone think I am saying the Polks are in any way in the same league as the Nrt's - I am not. I am just trying to document how another speaker sounds in my room with my source material.

Since I have the frequency response of the Polk's and Sierra-1 and Sierra-1 Nrt, I thought I would do a little Photoshop to see if I could discern anything between the two.



What I have attempted to do is line up the response of the Sierra-1 and Nrt that DaveF posted a while back and overlay the Polk response. I have aligned on the 3k and 4k boundary of both graphs and on the 0 db line. The stock Sierra-1 is in green, the Nrt is yellow, and the Polk is black. What I see is a pretty close match between the stock Sierra-1 and the Polk in the 3 khz to 4 khz band I am focused on. If (and this may be a big if) I am correct in this observation, then it would explain why I did not find the stock Sierra-1 objectionable when listening to source material rich in 3k-4k tones.

Here is a blown up zoomed in look at the same graph:



Again this is focused on the 3k-4k region.

DaveF told me, if I remember correctly from our conversation, that the Nrt has about 2 db more energy in the 3k-4k region.

I just thought this might be interesting to the Ascend Community. I am still puzzled why I seem more sensitive and in the minority in what I hear but alas we all hear differently!

I am super excited to hear the modified crossovers and will report back once I have them up and running.

-CB (Chris Barker)