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Thread: NrT upgrade completed!

  1. #31
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    Oct 2008
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Quote Originally Posted by cynan View Post
    Too each their own. My girlfriend told me that she thought she preferred the original Sierras... They certainly are more forgiving. It's a good thing, seeing that I am generally preferring the sound of the new NrTs, that they're my speakers and not her's
    .
    My wife like the original Sierra's sound much better too, and had no idea which was which or cared beside me asking, as both were playing the same sacd.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    King...do you use any kind of room correction?
    -curtis

  3. #33
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    Aug 2009
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    My wife like the original Sierra's sound much better too, and had no idea which was which or cared beside me asking, as both were playing the same sacd.
    Haha. I hear you. Which is probably why I wasn't too worried when I got that response on my end.

    The sort of ironic thing is that women retain their hearing - at least of the higher frequencies - longer than men in general. I'm lucky if I can hear much past 14,000 Hz myself. Some people just don't appreciate what they can, erm, appreciate. Or maybe the NrT tweeter is reproducing harmonic overtones that are off-putting that I can't hear but your wife, my gilfriend, and yourself can.

    In the unfortunate event that the above is found to be sexist, I'm just speaking from personal experience. I'm sure there are tons of female audio gear enthusiasts out there somewhere, I just haven't met any in person.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    [QUOTE=cynan;36315]Haha. I hear you. Which is probably why I wasn't too worried when I got that response on my end.

    The sort of ironic thing is that women retain their hearing - at least of the higher frequencies - longer than men in general. I'm lucky if I can hear much past 14,000 Hz myself. Some people just don't appreciate what they can, erm, appreciate. Or maybe the NrT tweeter is reproducing harmonic overtones that are off-putting that I can't hear but your wife, my gilfriend, and yourself can.
    /QUOTE]

    I left the worst part out. I made her describe the difference and she said tinny. Exactly what I was thinking. So its real.
    Hopefully I come to love it over time or for certain music.
    Last edited by King; 01-18-2011 at 05:07 PM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    18

    Default Nrt Upgrade and peakiness at 3k-4k

    Hi,

    I received my NrT upgrade shortly after Thanksgiving and have been enjoying the increased resolution.

    But, I have also been hearing some "peakiness" in the upper midrange which without doing any research I judged to be in the 2k-4k frequency region. I have since reviewed the graphs that DaveF posted a while back comparing the original Sierra-1 to the NrT upgrade. He notes that he was able to smooth out or eliminate the 3db dip at 3k. Based on my hearing this is where I am hearing some pretty piercing sounds on some recordings. It does seem to be highly recording dependent. For example, I listened to Danny Gatton's "88 Elmira St." which is filled with Telecaster type guitar sounds. With the NrT it becomes a bit too much to handle for me at least. Other recordings with prominent violins can also exhibit this somewhat piercing quality. Again, it does appear very recording dependent. I listen to a lot of ECM Records releases that are always impeccably engineered and I haven't noticed as much the problem I describe.

    I have spent a lot of time making tweaks to my system with slight adjustments to speaker placement and toe in. I also rewired my system interconnects with DIY cable based on Gotham GAC 4/1 microphone cable and Canare 4S11 speaker wire. I also recently installed the Q Plugs B since my speakers are 14 inches out from the wall in a modest sized living room. I finally have placed some VPI bricks (one each) on top of each Sierra-1 that sit on weight filled target metal stands. All of these tweaks have improved things but there still remains this peakiness in the upper midrange that I see others here reference?

    My signal component chain includes Emotiva USP-1 preamp, Emotiva UPA-2 amp, Logitech Duet Receiver into Channel Islands VDA-2 DAC, Sony HD Radio, VPI Scout Turntable with Benz Glider cartridge.

    I wonder if the NrT tweeter just needs time to settle and if it will change in sound over time? I guess I have a little less than 2 months of time on them? Or, I wonder if a crossover change might address this peakiness I and a few others have reported? I would be willing to pay for a crossover swap/exchange if one were developed that addressed my concern.

    I am a fifty year old male that seems to have most of my hearing still intact accounting for age, etc. I find it interesting that there have been some reports that females have found the NrT upgrade less preferable to the original Sierra-1s since it is a widely held belief that women have more extended hearing than men at relative ages?

    I've waited a while to post my thoughts so I hope I have not jumped the gun by posting erroneous results. I do think DaveF has done some great work with the NrT upgrade but I'd love to get some thoughts on what I and some others might be hearing.

    Thanks.

    -CB

  6. #36
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    Aug 2009
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    Default Re: Nrt Upgrade and peakiness at 3k-4k

    Quote Originally Posted by ctbarker32 View Post
    Hi,

    I find it interesting that there have been some reports that females have found the NrT upgrade less preferable to the original Sierra-1s since it is a widely held belief that women have more extended hearing than men at relative ages?

    I've waited a while to post my thoughts so I hope I have not jumped the gun by posting erroneous results. I do think DaveF has done some great work with the NrT upgrade but I'd love to get some thoughts on what I and some others might be hearing.
    Thank you for sharing your detailed observations.

    About women seeming to prefer the original Sierra-1. If your statement is solely based on the two examples shared in this thread (mine included), then I don't think it is fair to say at this point that there is any sort of systematic difference in preference by sex. If indeed the "harsh" quality of the NrT is most prevalent at 3-4 kHz, then there is no physiological basis for this. While women retain better hearing in the higher range, this is in the 10-12 kHz and up range. Most men, with otherwise healthy hearing, should have no problem hearing up to 10 Khz or higher.

    I would think that the main culprit here is the NrT's ability to accurately reproduce distortion on "poorer" quality or compression artifacts on lossy digital formats better than the original Sierra. Another possbile contributing factor might be that the NrT is reproducing lower order harmonic overtones at certain frequencies (ie, 3-4 kHz) that the original Sierra could not simultaneously reproduce as faithfully.

    All in all, it could very well be that the crossover is tuned a bit "hot" in the 3-4 kHz (and possibly other segments) of the frequency range.

    However, at this point I would guess that the largest factor here is one of relativity. If most people here are used to the original Sierra and "subconsciously" have their sound stuck in their head as a benchmark, then in comparison, the NrT will sound a bit hot in the upper frequencies. It will be interesting to read reviews of the NrT by people unfamiliar with the original Sierra.

    But you are right, if enough people care to report their listening experience, time will shed more light on this.

  7. #37
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    Nov 2005
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    501

    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    The best would be to actually post particular tracks where the issue arises and have people compare...

    Another thing to note, which might or may not be at issue here, some people just prefer a certain type of playback! Google failing me... Just found this:
    In the 1980's, several well known industry types, including studio engineers, set up a little test at the Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles. They invited a large number of audio industry leaders, professional musicians, and audio equipment reviewers to the event to "test some high quality new loudspeakers".

    Questionaires were passed out and all attendees were asked to fill out their ideas of the performance of the new technology loudspeakers. Curtains were drawn and the music was started. Various types of music was played. Questionaires were collected and the curtains were opened.

    You guessed it. There was a real orchestra playing ALL the music. None of the speakers were used. Quite a few of these 'trained' respondents said the "speakers" were of poor quality. Most said they were okay. Only a small number of participants guessed what was going on and stated they thought a real orchestra was playing.
    When building and testing some speakers, I was browsing on my sister's Ipod just looking for an actual good track to listen to the speakers, until I hit the next button, and was rewarded with an absolutely fantastic, life-like, cymbal sound, so much that I said "holy shit!", looked up with eyes wide opened, and to my dismay, she was standing next to a drum kit (in storage) with a drum stick in her hand just above one of the cymbals, she said: "What?", I said "fu**... I thought that was the speakers..."

    I can't say I've heard what you guys are describing with the NrTs though... To me the upgrade was an improvement from top to bottom, and although, like I've said, some mp3s or low quality music can get exposed, the "good stuff" just shines and sounds better than it ever did in my room...

    How does your rooms look like? Is it lively? Have you tried to play with placement, toe in, listening position, etc? (my room is treated, has absorbing panels on both sides as well as some in back and front wall & corners behind speakers... But as every room is different and plays a very significant role in end sound...)

    Anyhow, can definitely be speakers too, I'm not particularly sensitive to brightness and although can definitely get fatigued/annoyed if it's 'bad', don't find it's the case with the NrTs, quite neutral, for better or worse... And while some recordings can sound not too good, on good recordings it just sounds amazing... Resolution/detail is really fantastic!
    Last edited by GirgleMirt; 01-18-2011 at 03:52 PM.

  8. #38
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    Oct 2008
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    Default Re: Nrt Upgrade and peakiness at 3k-4k

    Quote Originally Posted by ctbarker32 View Post
    Hi,
    I I've waited a while to post my thoughts so I hope I have not jumped the gun by posting erroneous results. Thanks.
    -CB
    I jumped the gun as I also own Sonus Faber and Flagship McIntosh speakers.
    It's not only bad recordings that sound tinny in my opinion.
    Its a certain notes or a certain high pitch.
    The beauty is if someone does not like the voice of the NRT's they can return and get the original Sierra -1's. The Best deal going!!


    NRT's are something different, so I will keep them a while and see if I adjust to them or fit music that works well with the NRT's. I am going to run a Concept table next.

  9. #39
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    Jun 2010
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    18

    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    I appreciate the replies so far. I hope that DaveF will weigh in with his thoughts at some point.

    Just to address some points raised so far. All my listening is done via FLAC based lossless rips of CDs to my Squeezebox server that I have been running for the past six years or so. Some of my tests include music of better than cd resolution such as 48k/24b, 96k/24b, etc.

    I have a collection approaching 5,000 cds and another couple thousand LPs. While I have my share of poorly recorded albums, my critical listening has been with my best beloved and known sources. These are albums I have listened to for some 40 years that I know like the proverbial back of my hand.

    Also, I have several other audio systems in my house that include things like Martin Logan Vantage speakers, McCormack amps and preamps, Benchmark Dacs, etc.

    I think "King" has made a good point that there are certain notes that seem to set off a very piercing quality to the Nrt upgrade that I find pretty aggressive. I have already mentioned the Danny Gatton guitar with it's multitude of Telecaster guitars as a good example. I can start listing many other albums if the community needs more examples. I'm not sure how many I need to list?

    I really do like the improvements in detail and musical dynamics this upgrade has brought but I am puzzled by this piercing quality that surfaces on certain recordings?

    I look forward to further discussions.

    -CB

  10. #40
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    Oct 2008
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    Default Re: NrT upgrade completed!

    Quote Originally Posted by ctbarker32 View Post
    I really do like the improvements in detail and musical dynamics this upgrade has brought but I am puzzled by this piercing quality that surfaces on certain recordings?
    I look forward to further discussions.
    -CB
    Plus 1

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