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Thread: New Sierra Owner

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Lost in the boondocks of Connecticut, USA, Sol System, Milky Way
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    13

    Default New Sierra Owner

    Hi there.

    A bit of background. I've been an audioholic since the late 70's. I'm one of those guys who constantly reads reviews, goes to audition stuff, likes what he hears, buys it, listens to it happily for a while, then starts to notice shortcomings in one aspect of the music or another, gets frustrated, sells what he has and starts over again. Sometimes this works out okay (financial impact aside), sometimes I kick myself pretty hard 'cause what I get doesn't match up to what I had. Just to give you an idea, over the years I've had everything from Acoustic Energy AE-1's (original series, little bitty boxes) to VMPS SuperTower II A/R Special Edition towers (6'4" 300 pound monsters with 3 15" woofers, 15" mass loaded passive radiator, 4 midrange, 4 inverted dome tweeters, 1 Phillips ribbon supertweeter) and all sorts of stuff in between. Amps ranged from little Rotel 30 watt integrated to a pair of bridged Adcom GFA-555 (also original series), 600 some odd watts into 8 ohms. Up 'till today I've been listening to a pair of Klipsch La Scalas with an REL sub in our rec room with a Jolida integrated amp (2 X 6550 tubes per channel, class A/B not single ended.) Wanted to set up a system in the living room, wife doesn't like the rec room (converted basement, kind of uncomfortable). La Scalas didn't have a prayer of fitting in living room, so I was forced to go looking for an entirely new system. Rats.

    Obviously, given the fact that I'm posting here and the post says "New Sierra Owner", that's what I am. Spent a *LOT* of time researching smaller speakers, reading reviews, reading forums, etc. etc. etc. and decided to give Dave's speakers a try. Just got them today (recert naturals). I'm driving them with a Cambridge Audio 640A rev 2 integrated (75 watts per, demo unit from Audio Advisor) and using a Cambridge DVD89 as source (CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-Audio, also demo from AA), Blue Jeans cables and interconnects, Sanus wooden stands. Whole system cost less than my sub did. I went into this kind of skeptical, I have after all had the pleasure of owning a bunch of different Audiophile-Approved® speakers from companies like B&W and Theil over the years, and up until a few weeks ago I'd never heard of Ascend Acoustics. However, everything I read sounded promising, and given th 30 day option how could you lose?

    When the speakers landed today, my first reaction was Wow, this is the best packaging I've ever seen. Don't listen to the shipping carton, of course, but the care and thought that went into this was obvious and quite encouraging. Second thought was the speakers are magnificently constructed. Seriously. I have no idea how he can sell the *cabinets* for this price, let alone a complete speaker. So, let's set 'em up and see how they sound. Now, my room is not large (14 X 20 or so as I recall, had a couple glasses of wine last time I measured it, but that's probably close) and it's full of wifely furniture. To give the Sierras a fair shake, I moved a few chairs out of the way, and positioned the speakers where experience tells me they ought to sound the best - few feet out from the front wall, couple feet away from the side walls, on the short wall firing down the longer length of the room, listening position about 2/3rds back, speakers making about a 80 degree angle from listening position, slightly toed in, tweeters at ear height. Started with a CD my wife and I enjoy, one that we've heard many, many times on every system we've owned. Michael Bolton, Said I Love You, But I Lied (okay, okay, but I like it, so shoot me.) Well, uh, hummm... color me underwhelmed. Speakers sound okay, I guess, but Michaels nose seems to have grown a couple sizes since the last time I heard him. Don't know what to call the opposite of "nasal" - it literally sounds like he's singing through his nose. Imaging is good, bass is better than I expected... but there's no depth - everything is sort of 2D stretched from left to right. Maybe they're not broken in? But these were recerts, one of the reasons I got them was so I wouldn't have to worry about a break in period. Maybe I just had too high an expectation. Fiddled with positioning a little, moved and inch or so this way and that way, tried different toe in, didn't seem to make any real difference. Wife thought they sounded "nice", which isn't really condemning with faint praise, she's not as nutty as I am about this stuff. She did have a real problem with the fact that I'd screwed up the living room furniture to position these, though. I promised her I'd only pull them out into the room like this when we were doing "serious listening" - most of the time, I've have the chairs and stuff back where they belong and move the speakers back against the wall out of the way.

    Spent a couple hours listening, trying to convince myself I was happier with the sound than I was, eventually decided to call it quits for the day and try again tomorrow. Moved the speakers into the "idle not in use" position, put the furniture back, went to fix dinner. Just for the heck of it, put a CD on (Elton John 2nd album, SACD version), queued up Border Song, started to head into the kitchen.

    Holy Moses.

    This sounded *FANTASTIC*. I turned around with my jaw dragging on the floor. The whole front end of the room was gone, there was just this music filling the space where the wall used to be. I mean, for real, I felt like the chorus was someplace 15 or 20 feet on the other side of where my house used to end, stretched from side to side, with Elton standing way forward of them, and he sounded like, well, like Elton John singing in my living room. Forget airyness and transparency and imaging and soundstaging and fleshiness and every other adjective I can think of except for one - human. I stood there and listened to the rest of the album, then noticed my wife had come back into the room and was standing there with her eyes closed kind of swaying back and forth. I'll shorten this up a bit and just way we spent the next couple hours playing favorite cuts from a lot of different groups - Ronnie Milsap, the Stones, Pink Floyd, Neil Young, Judy Garland, and they all sounded more real than I remember hearing on any other system I've had (except maybe the B&W 801f's, but they're, like, $8K these days).

    And the thing is THIS SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING. I've attached a few pictures of the way the speakers are set up. Here's looking at the left speaker from our couch:



    Here's the right speaker:



    and here's the straight ahead view:



    There are so many things wrong with this setup I hardly know where to begin. The left speaker is right beside a 35" TV, which will reflect right into the room. Both speakers are flanking a big china cabinet with glass sides and front. There's a *CHAIR* in front of the right speaker (well, the tweeter is well above the arm, and the woofer is just clear of it, but still ). Both speakers are shoved as close to the wall as I can get them, given the banana plugs on the speaker posts. They're not centered on the wall - closer to the left side than they are to the right side. The left speaker is way too close to another glass china cabinet.

    But - this setup sounds FANTASTIC!

    I have absolutely no idea why. If anyone has a clue I'm all ears. I'll try to write more about the way this sounds over the next few days after I've had more time. For now, all I can say is I'm loving the music these play, I'm really glad I happened to play something after I'd "moved them out of the way", and I am seriously wondering if I know anything what so ever about stereos.

    If you have a pair of Sierras, I can't encourage you strongly enough to experiment with placement. You might get a big surprise.

    Color me baffled,

    Ray Garrison
    Music is Art
    Audio is Engineering

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SouthWest of Cleveland
    Posts
    1,924

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    Awesome write up, Ray! Welcome to the Ascend family!

    Now I will have to play with the positioning of my Sierra's to see if it brings any welcome changes.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Long Beach, California
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    Congrats Ray. The problem now is, you can't move anything.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    277

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    What a fantastic story, and fascinating to boot. Thank you Ray! (So well written too, you must be a writer of some sort!)

    I can't wait for more of your findings as to what specific factor(s) is causing the Sierras to sound so differently - whether it be distance from rear wall, sides walls, toe in, source material or what. Your inner scientist must be chomping at the bit. Mine is.

    Mark

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Lost in the boondocks of Connecticut, USA, Sol System, Milky Way
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    Quick update.

    I haven't had much chance to listen to my new setup at the sound level I've traditionally used, which I consider somewhat loud. Just to give you a baseline reference, I once hooked a CD player's output (Denon 1520) directly into the inputs of a pair of GFA-555 amps bridged into mono (600 watts into 8 ohms, no attenuation between CD player and amp) which were driving a pair of Klipschorns in a not-so-big room (maybe 15 X 25) with sliding glass doors that were open to the deck facing the beach, and put on a CD of Michael Murray playing Bach organ music on a really big pipe organ in a large church. It was sortta loud, but I really enjoyed it. When the CD finished, I heard noises outside, went out on the deck, and there was a small crowd of people outside clapping and saying "Thanks, Ray, that sounded AWESOME..."

    Anyway, back to the Sierras. I've mostly been listening late at night, after the rest of the family is in bed, so I have to keep the volume way down. I recently added an SACD/DVD-Audio compatible DVD player (Cambridge DVD-89) as my source, which I'm loving, and I've been buying SACD and DVD-Audio discs of music I'm familiar with (Elton John Goodbye Yellow Brick Road on DVD-A, Roy Orbison Black and White on DVD-A, Dark Side of the Moon on SACD, Days of Future Passed on SACD, Elton John [2nd album] on SACD) plus listening to plain old CD's by the boatload. (Turntable is still downstairs on the other system.) I don't have a meter available so I don't know the actual dB level I'm using, but it's somewhere between really low and low. Have to turn off all appliances, humidifier, etc. or they mask the music. I have never listened to music that such a reduced volume level and enjoyed it before. Every other system I've ever had has always sounded better and better as you turned it up louder and louder. Or maybe that's just me...

    I have *NEVER*, *EVER* heard a system anyplace (dealer demo, friend's house, Stereophile show, whatever) or, for that matter, live music ( ) that sounds this good at low volumes. The Sierras, even at really low volumes, play music that sounds alive, vibrant and realistically "sized" - that is, the soundstage doesn't shrink - back to front depth (if on the recording) is still deeper than I can believe, and the music extends out past the speakers to fill the whole front of my room. Bass (surprisingly deep bass, at that) is clear, articulate, and again, for lack of a better word, real. Acoustic bass sounds like someone plucking strings on a big wooden thingie in my room, electric bass sounds like it sounds in a club (only not so loud), drums - now, this is hard to articulate - drums still "thump" the air when hit, but its a quiet "thump". That is, the impact isn't diminished, it's just turned down. I wish I could describe it better... sort of like I've moved further away. Ya know how if you're at a football game way up in the bleachers and someone is playing a bass drum in the band, and the sound is not loud like it would be if you were close to it, but you still feel the "thump" in your chest? That's what I mean.

    I never enjoyed playing music at quiet, low levels before. Even when I tried to force myself to because it was late at night or whatever, I invariably wound up edging up the volume control, because it just didn't sound good until it was a little louder... then a little louder...

    Not with this system. With the Sierras I can listen for hours, turning *DOWN* the volume as it gets later into the night, and I just find myself falling into the music.

    Please don't take from this that I'm implying that the Sierras don't sound as good when played loudly - that's not my point. I hope to have some time to rock out with the system over the next few days, and as I do I'll post some more thoughts. But for now, let me sum up this way.

    If you have ever wanted a system for your study, or wherever it is that you spent time deep in thought late at night when the rest of the house is snuggled in bed sleeping, but you've always been disappointed at the amount of enjoyment your were able to experience listening to music played down low when all is quiet, you have *GOT* to hear the Sierras.

    I *LOVE* these speakers.

    Ray Garrison
    the old guy from Connecticut
    Music is Art
    Audio is Engineering

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Long Beach, California
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    Ray,
    What speaker stands are you using?
    Jan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Lost in the boondocks of Connecticut, USA, Sol System, Milky Way
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    Hi Jan.

    I'm using Sanus Natural Foundations Speaker Stands from Audio Advisor -

    These are 24 inches high, which is perfect to position the tweeters at ear level given the height of my couch. First let me say I'm not a big believer in things like speaker stands and such affecting the sound of a system - I didn't get these because I thought they'd "sound better" than some other stands. I got them because my wife wanted something that wouldn't look ugly in the living room, and because they were on sale as a demo pair. Cherry finished wood stands, they have (really cheap) cable dressing thingies on the back that keep the cables hidden until they come out from under the base on the floor, and they do what they're supposed to do - hold the speakers up off the floor, don't fall over, and don't "ring" like some metal stands I've used. I don't really think they contribute to the sound I'm getting, in any sense other than they're the correct height. They sure look nice, though.

    Note that in the above pictures the (birght white) speaker cables are lying on the floor. Wifely input suggested that wasn't such a great solution, so I've managed to shove them (gentle application of flat bladed screw driver and large hammer) under the baseboard trim at the foot of the wall. Between the stands hiding the cables from floor to speaker, and the electronics hiding in the corner cabinet, and the really, really nice cabinets of the Sierras, system looks pretty good. Not as good as it sounds, but pretty good.

    Jeez, what a long answer to a short question.

    Ray
    Music is Art
    Audio is Engineering

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Long Beach, California
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    Cool. Thank you Ray.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: New Sierra Owner

    Ray,

    Thank you so much for the wonderful review. I am very happy to hear that you are enjoying the speakers!
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Lost in the boondocks of Connecticut, USA, Sol System, Milky Way
    Posts
    13

    Default More Positive Feedback

    Hi again.

    Very busy these days, haven't had nearly as much time to simply listen to music as I'd like. Will continue to post snippits and bits as I can.

    I've noticed something really cool, thought I'd post it and ask if anyone else has a similar story, and ask Dave if he's got any comments on why this is so.

    Short summary - the Sierra's make bad recordings listenable, by separating the music from the sound.

    I haven't had any sleep to speak of in a couple days, so I may not be too coherent, but let me give a specific example of what I mean. One of my favorite recordings is the London cast recording of the Phantom of the Opera, Polydor 831 273-2 Y-2, with Michael Crawford as the Phantom and Sarah Brightman as Christine, particularly the first half dozen songs on disc one. For a lot of personal reasons, this music really, really reaches deep into me each time I hear it. Unfortunately, this is one of the *WORST* recordings I own. Holt's law (the better the performance the worse the recording, and vice versa) in full bloom. There are a few phrases sung by Sarah where the awful hissy piercing high frequency whistling will drill holes in your teeth. I don't know if the gain on the main mic was jacked way up, or there was some kind of weird feedback problem or resonance in an input tube (?) or what. Doesn't matter - the sound has always been so bad that I had a hard time getting past it to enjoy the performance. Very much like trying to relax and enjoy the show while someone's blowing a dog whistle in your ear.

    Last night I listened to this on the Sierra's, at a volume level a bit above where I've been the past week or so. I have never enjoyed this performance so much, including when I saw the original cast on Broadway. The piercing, hissing "SSSsssssssssssss" still rang out every time she sang anything with an "S" in it, but somehow the Sierra's managed to set it aside, apart from the music. If anything, it's unwaivering and unyielding awfulness was even more clearly articulated and presented via the Sierra's than any other system I've heard. But. somehow, it was set apart from the music. If you listen to a lot of LP's you know what I mean - even records with a scratchy surface with lots of pops and ticks can be enjoyed, because the pops and ticks are clearly not part of the music, they exist on a different plane and, given the right circumstances, can be ignored. In this case, I was listening to her sing, and some part of me registered this annoying extraneous noise accompanying her like an uninvited bagpipe player, but that's all it was - extraneous, disconnected, disjointed noise. The music and the emotion carried by her voice came through clearer and with more life and, uh, sorry... the gestalt of music and voice and pain and longing and hope and fear was here, with me, and the noise and annoyances and distractions were separated out like chaff from the wheat, and dumped over there in the corner...

    Okay, I'm really sorry, it's like seriously late and I'm really tired and I have no idea how to say what I'm trying to convey. For anyone reading this who is wondering about getting a pair of Sierra's, and if you're reading this you really need to get a life, let me make this simple.

    Buy The Speakers.

    Going to bed now...
    Music is Art
    Audio is Engineering

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