maxed out 170's?

[scape]

so the last few months I've decided to set my avr up for simple stereo mode with sub crossover (80hz); i've definitely enjoyed the difference-- while not as 'full' and 'warm' sounding as with audyssey, it seems more clear and defined a bit in the high-mids.

the problem is i believe my ears have finally adjusted to my 170's and i fear they are not enough, even for my small room. when listening at relatively loud levels I can hear things get a tad unintelligible at times, losing definition. what really made a large impact on this rather non-issue for the most part, is when I decided to watch harry potter: half blood prince. there is a scene of movie-style sound effects, along with a really brass and wind-heavy track. I actually found a clip if you'd like to see what i mean (too bad it's rather low volume recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e4YUhkeRIA)

I am just curious if anyone else has felt the mids on their 170's get a little..lost, and if the speakers ever sound compressed at higher volume. I'm also wondering if using 340's would help this, I have a center channel laying about; I am pretty sure Sierra's would be fine, as I've heard nothing but good things about clear mids on them.

setup:
denon 1909 avr
cbm-170se L/R
yamaha yst-sw315 sub
my 340 center is in corner gathering dust as I save for another (i'm thinking this summer is time for a bit of an upgrade across the front)

[Mag_Neato]

I don't recall feeling that way about my old 170's. They are, after all, a small 2-way speaker. I think I understand what you mean by the mids seeming to get "lost". They are a very neutral speaker. The mids do not stand out over the other frequencies and may come off as thin sounding. The Sierra's definitely improve on all aspects of the 170's. More detailed highs & mids. Much deeper and detailed bass. More slam. The mids are still, let's call them, laid back, but not missing. You will get hit in the chest with the mid bass.

Now, it is my undestanding that if you are looking for more of a home theater speaker where higher SPL's are desired, then the 340's will play louder than the Sierra's, and are more efficient.

Of course, if you are looking for a full sound with great lows, mids & highs, that will play very loud, consider the new towers.

[curtis]

How big is your room, how far do you sit from the speakers, and how loud do you listen?

[hearing specialist]

Since i'm into all the calibration programs and room correction equalization setups i'll share my opinion: With your receiver's MultEQ form of Audyssey did you use the "Flat" or just regular Audyssey settings after calibration before? MultEQ is pretty powerful at making great sound. I would try re-calibrating with MultEQ, allow it to correct and time align even if just 2 channel listening. Then, go in your manual EQ program and set it to your liking with distance measurements the same/time alignment and see if you can bring those mids out more clearly. The Audyssey program sets itself for a more "Natural" response unless you set it up for "Flat" response within the program. I'm all about reducing variables that can take away from enjoying your sound. Just a thought...

You have a great receiver, btw...

[scape]

thanks for the replies!
the listening area is 12x12 maybe, although one half of one wall goes out to a kitchen; speakers are facing away from that general direction. i listen as close to reference as i'm up for it-- that movie was up to what i felt the sound effects and voices seemed realistically loud; which is to say relatively loud i imagine.

i do like my receiver hearing_specialist, just wish i went with pre-outs for future growth :-\

my audyssey settings used to be just basic- but they tended to concentrate the listening area to a sweet spot, i even ran 3 passes from different seats. turning on straight stereo mode, no eq, etc, helped the listening environment a lot and soundstage actually expanded a tad, and imaging changed more for the better. the warm relaxed sound from multieq is now gone though maybe ill sit down tonite and give audyssey a go again

..i initially went to stereo mode b/c i felt dialogue was rather unintelligible on other settings with most sources, including music at low to moderate levels; which made me think audyssey pulled the mids back so they don't peak and compress so easily; which is now what i think the speaker is naturally doing (albeit somewhat rarely). mostly that one scene in harry potter just astonished me, it sounded really bad in my opinion.

i am switching jobs to one that pays almost twice as much, so i'm gonna pop over to the checkout and order another 340 i think ultimately i'd like some serious front channels, but that's still a bit far off i think compared to all the other things i've promised to treat myself to the last few years haha

if you think 340's upfront wont really make matters better, let me know anyone/everyone-- maybe ill hold off and just save for some sierra-1's.

[hearing specialist]

The 340's up front with matching peds filled with sand would promote a huge soundstage and excellent sound, very strong. Your existing 170's could then be used for side surrounds or rear surrounds depending on your room. The 340's are super sweet and with that awesome efficiency, dialog will not be a problem. In fact, the huge sonic difference will be a little slice of heaven! MultEQ would have a hayday with this setup and your receiver won't even break a sweat to make this happen. Very good Denon processing, nice 340's for fronts, rear 170's, and now a Rythmic servo sub, dude your set!

With your job promotion you deserve it

[DougMac]

thanks for the replies!
the listening area is 12x12 maybe, although one half of one wall goes out to a kitchen; speakers are facing away from that general direction. i listen as close to reference as i'm up for it-- that movie was up to what i felt the sound effects and voices seemed realistically loud; which is to say relatively loud i imagine.


my audyssey settings used to be just basic- but they tended to concentrate the listening area to a sweet spot, i even ran 3 passes from different seats. turning on straight stereo mode, no eq, etc, helped the listening environment a lot and soundstage actually expanded a tad, and imaging changed more for the better. the warm relaxed sound from multieq is now gone though maybe ill sit down tonite and give audyssey a go again

..i initially went to stereo mode b/c i felt dialogue was rather unintelligible on other settings with most sources, including music at low to moderate levels; which made me think audyssey pulled the mids back so they don't peak and compress so easily; which is now what i think the speaker is naturally doing (albeit somewhat rarely). mostly that one scene in harry potter just astonished me, it sounded really bad in my opinion.

i am switching jobs to one that pays almost twice as much, so i'm gonna pop over to the checkout and order another 340 i think ultimately i'd like some serious front channels, but that's still a bit far off i think compared to all the other things i've promised to treat myself to the last few years haha

if you think 340's upfront wont really make matters better, let me know anyone/everyone-- maybe ill hold off and just save for some sierra-1's.

Well, I can't say whether or not 340's will give you that much more. I do think if you put 340's L/C/R with the 170's as side surrounds, you'll be in business. I don't listen at reference much, but my 340's don't run out of gas at that level, which is really LOUD. I did find when I upgraded my AVR and ran MultiEQ on my Onkyo, the results needed tweaking. It set the crossover too low. Once I did a few adjustments, audio really improved. I don't know if you can tweak Audyssey with your Denon, but you might want to check its settings after running. I also used 3 positions when running Audyssey.

From what Dave advised when I set up my HT, I don't think Sierra's will handle loud signals any better than 340's. I suggest getting two more 340's and use your center.

[scape]

i played around with audyssey a bit, removing speaker distances and setting them to what my ears hear instead; i changed the eq to manual and put in a setting similar to what i usually use with equipment. it has definitely changed the feel to the sound. bit warmer, mids seem a bit more coherent-- but i really need to test that one scene in harry potter to see if what i did made any real change there. while doing this made the sound stage come in a bit from the sides, it made it seem deeper on some music- less 2D i guess you'd say. thanks for the encouragement to rethink audyssey's work, it's rather decent.
340 is definitely on the soon to buy list but i think i'll skip the center, i still cannot figure out a good way to position it; perhaps in my next place i'll have a bigger listening room and then i probably will figure something out.

[davef]

i played around with audyssey a bit, removing speaker distances and setting them to what my ears hear instead; i changed the eq to manual and put in a setting similar to what i usually use with equipment. it has definitely changed the feel to the sound. bit warmer, mids seem a bit more coherent-- but i really need to test that one scene in harry potter to see if what i did made any real change there. while doing this made the sound stage come in a bit from the sides, it made it seem deeper on some music- less 2D i guess you'd say. thanks for the encouragement to rethink audyssey's work, it's rather decent.
340 is definitely on the soon to buy list but i think i'll skip the center, i still cannot figure out a good way to position it; perhaps in my next place i'll have a bigger listening room and then i probably will figure something out.

Hi scape,

Just a few quick questions...

1) How far back are you sitting from the speakers?

2) When you say that the mids on the 170's start to get a bit lost, at what volume level are you listening at? It would be most helpful to know this by measuring the peak volume level (spl) at your listening position. A Radio Shack spl meter is an invaluable and affordable tool for tweaking your system.

Thanks in advance!

[scape]

thanks for peeking your head into the forums dave, I'm sure you're super busy with the new towers. the center channel actually intrigues me, it'd be interesting to see how much different it is from the towers, as i think i like the dimensions/compactness and front port of the center more.

anyways..

I'm about 8-12 ft back, depending where I might be sitting in my room. i have an spl meter on my phone but that's probably not even close to being accurate. I do plan on doing an AB test of my 340 and 170 to see if there is any real difference with what I'm hearing. I think it may just come down to me needing/wanting more up front out of my speakers- so another 340 is an optimal choice. i'm also contemplating a second sub-- but that's mostly unrelated to this post.