3d Sierras

[sbeveraggi]

Hi guys, I would really appreciate your input on this.

I have re-listened to a B&W 805s this weekend.
I prefer the overall sound of my Sierras, they are punchier, fuller sounding, very detailed and not at all fatiguing.
However, I did notice the 805s had a more "sparkle" and 3dimensional soundstage. Height and width were similar but they had definitely more depth. Some instruments, such as clarinets were not only centered, but floating closer to me.
Can I improve that area by upgrading my system's components? 805s were driven by an expensive ADCOM receiver, while my Sierras rely on a mid-line Denon 2809. Would adding something like an Emotiva XPA-2 help? Or replacing the Denon with separates?
I added an external DAC to my system recently, and soundstage definitely grew. Should I consider a more refined DAC? Can better cables help?

Or is that simply a speaker characteristic and little or nothing can be improved without replacing the speakers?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Sam1000]

Is it possible for you to listened them again and switch the electronics this time? That will help you decide whether upgrades in electronics with Sierras would get you the desired results. I had read in the forums that B&W really needed some power to bring best out of them.

[sbeveraggi]

Is it possible for you to listened them again and switch the electronics this time? That will help you decide whether upgrades in electronics with Sierras would get you the desired results. I had read in the forums that B&W really needed some power to bring best out of them.

Thanks for your answer Sam1000.
Will try to do that next weekend, but the store only carries expensive gear like rotel, adcom, arcam, etc...

Pardon my ignorance, but in theory, is it possible to improve speaker soundstage depth by upgrading electronics?
And if so, which electronics are most likely to make an actual difference? Amp, pre, dacs....?

[curtis]

Did you compare each set of speakers in the same room? The room/placement has a lot more to do with the soundstage than anythingelse.

You can not compare the soundstage of different speakers unless they are in the same room and even then, you should do what you can to optimize each set of speakers.

[Sam1000]

I would agree with Curtis.

As far as your question about electronics improving characteristics of music, I read a few posts in another forum about Oppo BDP-83SE and people are going gaga over how it unravels layers in music and enhances sound stage and blah blah blah....

Then there's another group who thinks that the best bang for the buck improvements comes from speakers and room treatment....(Well, I would like to try this, but I'm not allowed to put any room treatment panels in the living room :-)..

[sbeveraggi]

Did you compare each set of speakers in the same room? The room/placement has a lot more to do with the soundstage than anythingelse.

You can not compare the soundstage of different speakers unless they are in the same room and even then, you should do what you can to optimize each set of speakers.

Thanks for your answer Curtis.
I know that is the ideal way to compare, but sadly I cannot borrow a pair of speakers from them for free.
Besides, I don't want to change my Sierras, I really like the way they sound and wouldn't change them for 805s.
Now, if I could add some of that "clarinets floating around my ears" to my setup, it would be great!

I believe you have had the chance to hear both speakers in the same room. Do you think their soundstage is different? Or are my impressions simply based on higher end electronics?

[sbeveraggi]

I would agree with Curtis.

As far as your question about electronics improving characteristics of music, I read a few posts in another forum about Oppo BDP-83SE and people are going gaga over how it unravels layers in music and enhances sound stage and blah blah blah....

Then there's another group who thinks that the best bang for the buck improvements comes from speakers and room treatment....(Well, I would like to try this, but I'm not allowed to put any room treatment panels in the living room :-)..

I used to believe speakers were responsible for at least 80-90% of sound quality. In my mind, pricier amps, cd players, cables, etc were just for showing off your money or provided a marginal improvement at best.
But recently, I tried an external DAC (quite cheap, actually) for my Mac Music Server. The improvement was night and day. It took my Sierras to a whole new level. Now, I'm rethinking the whole equation. While speakers are extremely important, other components certainly DO MATTER.
Also, many intelligent people who clearly know A LOT MORE than me about audio own monoblock amps, four figure DACs, etc.
All this leads me to believe maybe some changes in my system could provide AUDIBLE IMPROVEMENTS, such as a better 3d sounstage.
I've also considered room treatments, but they seem to require a lot of knowledge to implement well, and my wife won't be happy about them either.

[curtis]

I used to believe speakers were responsible for at least 80-90% of sound quality. In my mind, pricier amps, cd players, cables, etc were just for showing off your money or provided a marginal improvement at best.
But recently, I tried an external DAC (quite cheap, actually) for my Mac Music Server. The improvement was night and day. It took my Sierras to a whole new level. Now, I'm rethinking the whole equation. While speakers are extremely important, other components certainly DO MATTER.
Also, many intelligent people who clearly know A LOT MORE than me about audio own monoblock amps, four figure DACs, etc.
All this leads me to believe maybe some changes in my system could provide AUDIBLE IMPROVEMENTS, such as a better 3d sounstage.
I've also considered room treatments, but they seem to require a lot of knowledge to implement well, and my wife won't be happy about them either.

External DAC vs what? The internal DAC on your receiver?

[curtis]

Thanks for your answer Curtis.
I know that is the ideal way to compare, but sadly I cannot borrow a pair of speakers from them for free.
Besides, I don't want to change my Sierras, I really like the way they sound and wouldn't change them for 805s.
Now, if I could add some of that "clarinets floating around my ears" to my setup, it would be great!

I believe you have had the chance to hear both speakers in the same room. Do you think their soundstage is different? Or are my impressions simply based on higher end electronics?

The difference in your impressions, IMO, are more due to the room/environment more than anything else.

When it comes to soundstage, not only is comparing in two different environments not ideal, it just simply can not be done.

Yes, I did have a chance to listen to both speakers at a shop. While the two sound quite different, I don't think I remember a difference in a soundstage enough to comment/remember.

[debo]

To obtain accurate sound it starts with the speakers with room acoustics a very close second if not just as important. I have been adding room treatments to my room and tweaking speaker placement for years and the improvement has been fantastic. Electronics will improve the sound but you will be better served starting with the room and placement. When you go back to the audio shop to take another listen just look around the room, ceiling, floor,and walls. How far are the speakers off the side and back walls.
Reflections kill clarity and placement sets up your sound stage. What you already own should give you some nice sound!