Sierra Towers?

[Asliang]

You know I always thought it was neat how the old Infinity Prelude speakers were basically tall bookshelves sitting on top of subs.


So I wondered, how about a Sierra that docks onto a sub, maybe a taller vertically-oriented, sealed dual-driver sub (or 1 active, 1 passive driver) that connects flush with the Sierras?

[NegativeEntropy]

A view from someone that knows almost nothing about speaker design:

I'm not sure what percentage of Sierra customers also buy stands, but I'm guessing it's > 50% whether they buy them from Ascend or not. As such, they're already paying for "tower speaker" level shipping costs (bookshelf + stand ~= single tower).

That said, if the acoustic goal is to cover more of the 20-20k range, is not the ideal placement of a sub different than that of a woofer and up? Locking your sub into your tower may limit placement flexibility as compared to a separate sub.

At the same time, if it saves 1-2 subs, that de-clutters the room and for potentially approx. equal dollars.

To me, a primary advantage of an Ascend "Sierra" tower:
1) Cabinet appearance is consistent vs bamboo speaker + MDF (or any non-bamboo) stand.
2) Potentially 1 less box to buy and place, assuming no need for a sub (or two). I have no idea how commonly a tower is really "full range" as this would require. I expect it's rare given the cabinet volume needed for a sub that goes to 20 Hz. That's lots of bamboo....

Disadvantage (potential anyway): what do you do for a center channel? Sierra-1 only works with a "Sierra tower" if timbre matched, no? That likely means 2 speakers to design, stock, sell. More inventory/part numbers with the color/finish options of the current Sierra-1.

Engineering is all about intelligently selecting trade-offs. But to do that, you need boundary conditions. What is the goal here? Something more full range? Something more efficient/sensitive? Something with better sound quality but otherwise similar? Something that just looks more consistent (i.e. a problem solved by bamboo stands in a matching finish)?

[scape]

i think as cool as towers seem, the flexibility of sub placement is much more important-- as is an amp that can push a tower cleanly; keep in mind the sub is self-powered. the OP stated $2k as a good pricepoint, and for that price you could get two sierra's and a rythmik that I bet would out perform most towers in that price range and up. i'd be curious to who here has two rythmiks running and what they have it paired with

[RicardoJoa]

What about some tower speakers that is of higher level then the sierra?
I think that the sierra are really great speaker but i would happy if ascend can come up with something with higher standards at affordable price.

[GirgleMirt]

What do you mean by affordable? Or, how much money would you consider towers to be affordable?

Right now, Sierra-1 at 900$ uses:
- bookshelf Bamboo cabinet
- 2 tweeters
- 2 drivers
- 2 crossovers.

If you switch to towers, you'll have
- tower sized cabinet
- 2 tweeters
- > 2 drivers, probably 4 minimum...
- 2 or 4 crossovers, if you consider a 3 way

So this could easily cost 2 times more than a pair of Sierras, but then, if you even want superior components, "higher standards" as you put it, then it'll most probably be more than two times, so you'd be above 1800$... What price would you consider affordable? Just curious...

Asliang: Are you being sarcastic? These speakers look horrible... And remember that a sub's optimal placement is not the same as the speaker's, so by placing one on top of the other, you're losing on the flexibility that a sub offers you...

[RicardoJoa]

Those are ur guestimates!
Just because the sierra uses bamboo doesnt mean that any other higher line needs to. I am sure there are still margin for improvement and affordabiity Unless ascend are seeling the sierra at a lost.

[GirgleMirt]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If you build a larger cabinet, it'll cost more. Unless you skimp on quality, then it might cost less, but will be a worst cabinet. If you use more drivers, it'll cost more, unless you use cheaper drivers, which is again probably a sacrifice in quality. If you use more crossovers, same, it'll cost more, unless you sacrifice quality.

Again, building a larger speaker using the same quality parts as a bookshelf will invariably cost more. Hoping for a tower using same quality parts, improving quality and costing the same or less is absolutely unrealistic.

A larger cabinet will require a lot more material, more internal bracing, as it will be more prone to vibrate and resonate than a smaller cabinet. Using bamboo becomes even more of an advantage, if you go with MDF, with a larger cabinet, that's quite a big sacrifice... The larger cabinet will cost more to ship, it'll be more complicated and take more time to build... All these things increase costs. You build a cabinet 3-4 times the size of the Sierra, it'll cost you quite a bit more than a Sierra cabinet if you want to keep the same level of quality...

Again, it comes down to, what would you think would be a reasonable price to pay for Sierra floorstanders? If you say 1000$, then forget it, it's never going to happen.

Let's take a look at for example Dynaudio's line, which is quite similar to others...
850$ Audience 42 (bookshelf)
1400$ Audience 62 (2 way floorstander)
2800$ Audience 72 (floorstander 3 way or 2.5 or whatever)

C1: (bookshelf) 5000$
C2: (Floorstander) 9500$
C4: 13500$

Another manufacturer:
Small 2 way: 300$
medium 2 way: 350$
2 woofers + tweeter bookshelf: 500$
2 way floorstander: 800$
floorstanders with more drivers: 1000$
floorstanders with even more drivers: 1400$


So it's absolutely unrealistic for a Sierra floorstander not to cost more than the bookshelf... What it seems you're asking for would be the equivalent of a C1 (representing the Sierra) floorstander being an Audience 72... Yeah ok, they cost less, but they're not an improvement, and they're not an equivalent in floorstander... They're simply cheaper floorstanders... Is this what you'd want?

If you really want a Sierra floorstander worthy of the name, expect to pay quite a bit more than the bookshelf.

If your guesstimate for a sierra floorstander is very different from this, as in, 1:1 price with bookshelfs or much lower than two times the price, I'll wager 100$ that your guesstimate is much worst than mine!

[King]

Asliang: Are you being sarcastic? These speakers look horrible... And remember that a sub's optimal placement is not the same as the speaker's, so by placing one on top of the other, you're losing on the flexibility that a sub offers you...

Not that I agree but:
JL recommends that each JL sub is placed as close to the front speaker as possible. (Carl Kennedy)

They must think this is an optimal placement for HT and music.
Or, at least, not a bad one.

Cheers

[Mag_Neato]

I'm still holding out for a sierra-1 "SE" upgrade, that will take them to the next level for a modest investment. Maybe increased "Air", more open/detailed midrange, etc. driver/crossover upgrade stuff. Maybe put a speaker like the Proac Response 1 SC in the crosshairs. I think that would fall more inline with the Ascend philosophy. If I felt that I could have a $2000-$3000 comparable speaker for an extra few hundred dollars upgrade over the regular Sierra-1 price I'd be on the bus!

[markie]

Mag_Neato echoes my sentiments about taking the Sierra to the next SE level. It is hard to improve such a very special speaker, but there is room. I noted over at AVS where people met at someone's house (MerryMaids?) and they compared some bookshelf speakers - Sierras, Emotiva's ERM, Paradigm Signature and the WAF. Sierras came second behind the significantly more expensive Paradigms, but I was surprised how closely the inexpensive WAFs came in behind the Sierras. People mostly appreciated the smoothness,detail,and overall presentation of the Sierras, but apparently some love was lost because it was lacking in upper end sparkle, with it's high end seemingly rolled off in comparison to the Paradigm and WAF. Or was it unluckly synergy between the speakers/electronics/room? Don't know.

Towers. Frankly it would be hard to compete with the Salk Songtowers and HT2 imo, so that's why I think a Sierra SE is preferred for now, as well as a smaller wall mounted bamboo Sierra .5 option.

Mark