5.1 recommendations for smaller room

[LoneAspen]

Hi everybody,

I just moved into a new rental home, and am getting ready to (finally) start putting together my first "real" home theater. I've been sold on Ascend speakers for a long time now based on the fantastic reviews that people give them, and it's obvious that Ascend builds and backs a great product, and has a great relationship with their user community.

But with the new Sierras out, I have a decision to make, and I'd appreciate some feedback.

The one room I picked to be the home theater is one of the bedrooms. Sounds strange, I know, but it's the most easily light controlled room in the house, and also the one that's farthest away from the next door neighbor's house. The main living room is on the side of the house next to him (plus it would be very hard to light control that room) and I want to be able to crank it up some without fear of disturbing the neighbor. This is a detached single-family house, not a townhome, but with a full 5.1 system going, I don't want any sound bleeding outside to disturb anybody.

So...the room I picked is right at 12' 8" square. The entry door is in one of the corner areas, which could present a challenge with rear speaker placement, unless I put something in place to prevent the door from opening very much to allow me to put a speaker near the corner area.

If the Sierras hadn't come out, I was planning on going with a full 340 setup. But I'm wondering would be Sierras be a better, or worse, choice for a home theater setup in such a small room? I should note I only plan on using the setup for HT/movie use, not music listening, if that makes a difference. Also, I'm undecided on a sub right now, so feel free to jump in with recommendations on that, too.

Would a full 340 setup sound the best in a room this small? Or maybe Sierras for L/C/R, and 340s for rear? How big (small?) a sub would work best in this room?

In case it matters, I do plan on running a front projection setup. Undecided on screen size, but I might go with acoustically transparent screen just so it's easier to put the center channel behind the screen if I need.

Would appreciate any and all recommendations, and thanks!

EDIT: After reviewing Ascend's model lineup more closely, I think I've narrowed it down to two possibilities:

1. L/C/R: Sierra-1, Surround: CBM-170 SE

2. L/C/R: CMT-340 SE, Surround: CBM-170 SE

Sierra-1's as surrounds in such a small room seem like overkill and money I could better spend on a sub. I think the CMT-340 SE's as surrounds are too tall at 21" tall to make wall placement easy with that door in the corner. The CBM-170 SE's at only 12" tall will be much easier to mount as surrounds.

Do you think since I'm only doing movies (not music) I would notice THAT much of an improvement going with Sierras as the mains in such a small room? Or would the CMT-340 SE's do just as good a job, which would let me save some $$$ to put into a good sub (and which of the three sub models would be a good fit for that size room)?

- Chris

[chas]

Actually the HTM-200SE's would be more than adequate for a small room like that -especially for mostly HT use. Personally I think 340's are overkill for a room that size - you could easily get away with an all 200SE system, but I think I would go with 170SE fronts and 200SE surrounds. If you listened to a lot of music I would think about a jump up to the Sierra's.

[chas]

This thread over at AVS has some good ideas on small theater rooms:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=996973

[LoneAspen]

Thanks chas!

I visit AVS a lot, so that thread will definitely come in handy!

Based on the very first theater design that was posted, it already caused me to rethink which side of the room I could put my seats on for best effect. I had my seats by the door, but it makes better sense to have them on the opposite wall. That way, I think there's enough clearance for the door to open fully without hitting a speaker or screen.

Thanks!

[DougMac]

Chris,

You've given us a good description of your situation except for your budget constraints.

I own every speaker you mention except the Sierras and I think you could build a great sounding system with any of them, including an all 200SE system. Given the size of your room, I suggest you go with 170's up front and 200's for surrounds. I also think the F-12 SE will be a great sub and could continue to serve you when you have a bigger home theater.

I'm running 340's for L/C/R, 170's for side surrounds and 200's for back surrounds in a 16x20x9 HT. I easily achieve reference levels with no strain.

The size of your room will require some research and careful planning on your part. I used a number of online guides, including this one to determine optimum screen size (http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html)
You'll also need to pay special attention to projector specs, especially the max image size at specific distances and the image offset.

While an acoustically transparent screen would be nice, you just don't have the real estate for it. You'll need to have the screen probably a minimum of 18-24" from the back wall to accomodate room for your speakers. If you went this route, I'd definately recommend either the sealed 200's or plugged Sierras. Even with our 20' depth, the numbers didn't work out to have an AT screen. I have the center underneath the screen and it is not objectionable.

You'll need some way to really control the window light if you go with front projection. Even a small amount of ambient light can degrade the image. Our HT is totally light conrolled. I have overhead can lights on a dimmer and we watch with just a smidge of light from them. The HT is also painted very dark, with black surrounding the screen area and a black acoustic tiled ceiling. Given the size of your room and the possible issues with ambient light, I think you might want to consider a 50-55" LCD as a possible alternative, even though I just love the look of front projection.

[LoneAspen]

DougMac - Thanks for the reply. As far as budget, I'd like to keep the speaker system at around $1500 or below (not including sub). I'd really like to keep it at $1000 or below, but that's probably not realistic. I'd rather spend the extra $$$ to have something I really enjoy.

Regarding screen sizes, I had a house in Colorado where I had temporarily set up a 92" screen in a room that was about 12' wide by about 18' long (if I recall correctly). Seating distance from the screen was probably about 12' give or take. It was a 480 Infocus projector, so there was a little screen door effect if you got closer to the screen, but wasn't a problem at that distance. I would only get a 1080p projector for this new place, which should eliminate any screen door effect at that distance, so my only concern is the actual screen size. I'm just not into LCD or plasma TVs. Since I'm trying to recreate the movie experience, it's a "must" for me to have a front projector.

I did some preliminary measuring in this new room, and I think either a 92" or 100" screen would fit well. I know 100" sounds like overload in such a small room, but I mocked up on the wall where it would fit, and sat down where I'd be sitting, and it seemed just fine. After thinking about it, I decided I'd put the seats on the other side of the room so the entry door wouldn't interfere with them. Having the screen on the other wall, with L/R speakers beside it, works much better and eliminates the need for an acoustically transparent screen.

As far as light controlling the room, yes, I'm big on that. The room has one large window and two smaller little square windows in it that I plan on fully light controlling. I want ZERO ambient light in the room, which is one reason why I didn't want to put the home theater in the living room in the house because it would be very difficult to light control that space. I plan on doing a combination of window film, blackout shades, window box plugs, whatever it takes, to light control the room.

I also plan on painting the ceiling and walls a very dark color. Based on some of the HT construction threads I've seen on AVS where people did amazing things with black and other dark-colored walls, and wall panels, rope lighting, wall sconces, etc, I might go that route. I have no problems painting the room dark or even black. One benefit is I'm single, so no significant other to worry about objecting to my plans. I can do anything I want to the room short of demo'ing it because it's a rental home

Thanks for the suggestions! I also forgot Ascend is still having a moving sale, which might be a good route for me. It's 340s for L/C/R, and 170s for rear surrounds, for under $1000. I'm seriously considering that setup, along with an appropriate sub.

EDIT: Thanks for that calculator you posted. I just plugged in an 11' viewing distance, and a 100" 16:9 screen diagonal, and the viewing angle came out to 36.5 degrees, almost right at the recommended THX viewing angle of 36 degrees. Not bad in such a small room if I can hit the THX viewing angle almost spot on

[chas]

You might want to email Dave Fabrikant and get the official recommendation on speakers for your room. He designed them so I'm sure he could tell you what he would use in a room that size for your purposes. This should help reduce any doubts or second thoughts. (and if you do please post back with his recommendations!)

[LoneAspen]

Will do - thanks!

[DougMac]

I also forgot Ascend is still having a moving sale, which might be a good route for me. It's 340s for L/C/R, and 170s for rear surrounds, for under $1000. I'm seriously considering that setup, along with an appropriate sub.

I'd jump on that. That's what I'm running and I'm extremely pleased. When I have friends over to the HT for the first time, I normally don't start the demo with the thumping war horses normally used. I often start with "The Battle of Evermore" on the the "Heart - Live In Seattle" BD. It starts with just mandolin, acoustic guitar and a lovely give and take duet between Ann and Nancy. Their jaws drop from the clarity and nuance of the Ascend presentation. I usually follow with "Black Dog", Heart at its hard rock finest. After that it's on to the normal HT demo fare. One friend who spent a wad at a big box for speakers summed up the normal reaction: "Now I have a serious case of speaker envy!

[scape]

htm's surround-backs might be a better choice in your case for the rear setup; does your stereo do 6 or 7 channel?if you got 4 of these for surround and surround rear, you could mount they directly onto the walls; saving an extreme amount of space vs mounting a 170,while getting even greater surreal effects from have 4 channels of rear and side surround-- just a thought...
I would definitely go for sierra's up front if your budget will afford it, 340's would be overkill. If you're using a projector screen which can transmit audio fine, go for 3 channel, but personally (and with my plasma tv) I don't because the center is always bugging me how it is above or below screen; I now only use stereo setup in front combining the center channel into the two; it sounds remarkably well (much, much better than my center channel attempts). lastly, the squarness, and smaller size, of your room can pose a problem with a subwoofer, but I highly suggest one anyways; if your receiver has a microphone testing function, it may solve any bumps or dips in bass; otherwise tinkering with placement of, or even adding a second sub on an adjacent wall is recommended.