Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

[monomer]

...Although the room is technically 14x14x8, the floor to ceiling in-wall closet makes it about 12x14x8, with an odd free space in the back of the room....

I don't like to be the bringer of bad news but...
I too agree that those two 14 foot room dimensions are going to prove to be a serious detriment to getting good, smooth bass response in that room and I'm not so sure that closet will make a huge difference as the low freq waves might easily pass through those glass doors... however another problem with having huge glass anythings in the room is what it will do to sound reflections at the higher frequencies.... additionally its asymmetrical to your direction of intended layout. Bottomline is your particular listening space I'm afraid appears its going to offer some serious sonic challenges to your efforts to obtain good imaging and a smooth freq response. You will have to rely on judicious speaker placements and lots of room-treatments to try to get the best from your proposed listening environment as it currently exists. This is just my opinion. If it were me, I would actually be considering ripping out the closet's glass doors and replacing it with an actual wall or hanging some very heavy doors in place of the glass at least.

...Didn't know the futon against the back wall was problematic. Why is that?

The short answer is because the length of travel for reflections will be multiples of the direct radiating wave which can often lead to complete room nulls (and boomy peaks) ...its because so many of the dimensions of travel across the room will be multiples of the straight line distance to your ear. This is also why a listening position in the center of the room is also inadvisable. Once you begin your search for a sub position that doesn't result in complete nulls you will come to the realization that one really doesn't exist for listening positions on a boundary or in the center of the room. That's why the suggestion is given to select listening positions that are at 1/3rds of a room's measured dimensions (really its 38% and 62% that are considered best). In your room that would be ~5'4" (38%) and ~8'8" (62%). The first dimension I would think would be a bit too close to be considered a reasonable viewing distance (unless your screen is really small) and so 8'8" would be the best place to locate the futon with the hopes of finding a reasonable place for the sub that's free of complete nulls (and boomy peaks too). Also if you plan to do any sort of rear surround speaker placement, then a listening position up against the back wall would destroy any directional sonic value those speakers might have provided. Bottomline... placing the futon against the back wall is not really a good idea.

[sbeveraggi]

Thanks for you answer monomer.
Let me explain my room a little better. The in-wall closet has thick wooden doors, and it is the back wall of the room that has glass windows.
My screen is 47", so I will try the futon at 9'4" for better results. My receiver has Audyssey MultEQ XT, hope that also helps a bit.
I'll also try placing the sub in the 3 corners and behind the futon.

[muzz]

Why not run REW and look at the FR at various locations?
I saw MASSIVE differences when I moved my sub around the room(and corner loading suckd).

Maybe I missed something?

[sbeveraggi]

Why not run REW and look at the FR at various locations?
I saw MASSIVE differences when I moved my sub around the room(and corner loading suckd).

Maybe I missed something?

I already bought a RS Digital Meter to get basic measurements, but I think I would also need a very good soundcard and a something like a BFD (Behringer Feedback Destroyer) to use REW properly...

[monomer]

Thanks for you answer monomer.
Let me explain my room a little better. The in-wall closet has thick wooden doors, and it is the back wall of the room that has glass windows.
My screen is 47", so I will try the futon at 9'4" for better results. My receiver has Audyssey MultEQ XT, hope that also helps a bit.
I'll also try placing the sub in the 3 corners and behind the futon.

Ah, I see now.... I read that description your wrote a little differently... I thought the glass was somehow integrated into the closet (possibly big door mirrors or such). Now I get it... the glass you were referring to was the windows. I might suggest you consider heavy thermal drapes to cut the 'liveliness' of the room, however its fortunate its located at the back wall away from the mains. Yes, try the sub in each of the corners but in addition you might also try it at several positions along that wall to the side of the couch and pick the spot with the least 'dips' for the bass. Then use Audyssey to flatten the peaks. Good luck buddy.

[TooManyHobbies]

As has already been suggested, a square or almost square room can be an acoustic nightmare, and a cube or near cube even worse, although I'm aware of many people that are happy with their audio systems in such rooms. I believe the ceiling height being discussed here is 8 feet which will add to the problems since 14 is almost a multiple. There are a few additional problems this room, and particularly the speaker and furniture placement may create. Large window areas, in addition to being reflective to higher frequencies, can rattle with heavy bass. Placing the sub next to a large window area will aggravate window rattles. Large closet doors may also rattle, especially sliding doors or any that are not tight and secure in the door frame when closed. Asymmetrical speaker placement where one of a pair is placed in or near a corner and the other is mid-wall, or where they are different distances from a back wall will cause output differences that will steer the sound image toward the one in the corner or closer to the wall. This can be further aggravated by differences in diffraction or absorption of the surfaces close to each speaker. Corner placements can also create reflection issues that color the sound. Moving the seating area into the middle of the room is likely an improvement in most rooms if it can be tolerated, but the difference between being flush against a wall and a couple feet away is not likely to make much difference. I'd actually expect the sound to be better with the seating area flush against the wall than a couple feet away - reflections will not be as noticeable - and pillows placed along the back of the futon or sofa propped against the wall make cheap, effective sound absorbers for further reducing the effect of the back wall reflection. Of course the more near-field (closer to the speakers) the seating position is the less noticeable other room effects will likely be, so that's not a bad thing to achieve, but many times its just not practical in a multi-purpose room to have furniture in the middle of the floor.

Harmon-Kardon has several excellent white papers on speaker placement and room acoustics in the technical support area of their web site. While these are written by H-K audio engineers, I did not find them too technical to be very worthwhile reading, although I must admit that I am an engineer myself, though not in audio. The articles provided some practical ideas for improving the audio experience that I have used to experiment with my setup. I believe I have improved my system without any significant added expense and, most importantly, without serious objections from my wife.

One of the Harmon-Kardon articles suggested a diagonal room arrangement as an improvement in square rooms, and you might want to try that arrangement, although 12 x 14 may prove too small to work for that arrangement (insufficient free space to move around in the room or use for other purposes). I believe the example in the H-K article was about 18 x 18.

Bill