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Thread: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Default Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    My DS15 SE arrived today and initial setup was a breeze.

    I used the following settings on the back of the sub and ran Audyssey MultEQ through the first mic position to see how high or low it was setting the sub.

    1. Low pass: EXT/12db (not 80hz / 24)
    2. PEQ off at first. With it off, none of the knobs in that white box will have any affect.
    3. Delay / phase at 0.
    4. Crossover at the maximum to start
    5. Level, start at 12 o'clock to begin
    6. Extension 14hz to start.
    7. Damping on HIGH to start.
    8. Rumble filter on OFF to start.

    Audyssey set the sub channel at +9 dB. I turned the D15 SE's level knob to the 2 o'clock position, re-ran Audyssey and ended up with a sub channel setting of + 0.5 dB -- almost spot on.

    I tried the sub in the front right corner of my 23' x 16' room but felt like I was getting too much room gain. Besides, I'm in the market for room treatments and all the vendors I've talked to have recommended a bass trap in that corner.

    For now, I've got the D15 between my television and left front speaker. I'll spend at least an evening with it in that location before moving it.

    I'm curious about the PEQ controls but don't want to start messing without further guidance. Any recommendations out there?

    So far, only two issues with this sub and current setup.

    Movie explosions sound great but I'm not getting that deep in the chest impact I was expecting at higher volumes. Can PEQ help?

    Standing behind my sofa -- my main seating position -- I noticed a definite lack of bass output.

    All the room treatment folks I've talked to recommend bass traps back there. But that seems counterintuitive to me given that there's not much bass happening back there. Maybe this is what folks mean by a null.

    Same question as above -- is there anything the D15 SE's PEQ features can do to help?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Manhattan Beach, California
    Posts
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    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    I'm curious about the PEQ controls but don't want to start messing without further guidance. Any recommendations out there?

    So far, only two issues with this sub and current setup.

    Movie explosions sound great but I'm not getting that deep in the chest impact I was expecting at higher volumes. Can PEQ help?
    Chest impact does not come from deep bass, it is in the 40-60hz range. Deep bass is more a sensation of wave movement than an impact or jolt.

    The PEQ (Parametric Equalizer) on the amp is only for a single band/peak. Most rooms have at least one bad peak, and with some measurements, this function can help address it. With Audessey, there really is not need to use the PEQ.

    It would be interesting to seen measurements with and without Audessey.
    -curtis

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    17

    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    Its important to realize that peaks can be attenuated using either Audyssey or the PEQ but you can NOT boost a null. A strong room reflection can compete with the direct signal source and if they meet up at your ear as crest-to-crest or trough-to-trough they will be additive (creating a peak) and attenuation will work to lower the overall sound level at that frequency... however if they meet crest-to-tough they will tend to cancel each other creating a null at that freq (similar to how noise canceling headphones work) and simply boosting the signal will cause equal increases to both crest and trough (meaning both the direct source and its reflected wave are boosted by a similar amount) with the result being the null remains unaffected. Keeping this in mind...

    In general this is what you should be looking to do...

    Pick a location for the sub that seems to eliminate or at least minimize any serious nulls from all the listening positions. Then run Audyssey to attenuate any peaks and you will have the best in-room response possible. Its a relatively simple thing to do. I don't know what testing or monitoring equipment you have at your disposal or what you might be running for mains so to keep it really simple just download a sweep that covers the range from 10Hz-150Hz or there 'bouts and play it at approx. 75-80dBs over and over again as you sit in each of the various listening positions. You are listening for nulls, either full or partials... ignore any peaks you hear as they can be EQed out later. At a full null the sound will completely vanish, you cannot tolerate even a single full null... find another place for the sub. A partial null will cause the sound level to dip, if its not too bad don't worry about it as every position will have some dips, just find the sub position with the least and shallowest dip(s) and call it good. Hopefully you won't have to try more than 2 or 3 positions... most people with wives will find they only have 2 or 3 choices for sub position given to them anyway If you wanted you could use PEQ to remove any obvious offending peak and then let Audyssey take care of the rest.

    I personally don't think bass traps will help with smoothing freqs much below 80Hz... plus they can be very large while only resulting in a modest improvement. I use them myself but can't and don't rely on them to deal with room modes.

    Bottomline... sub positioning and listening locations are what you should try using to eliminate any nulls.
    Last edited by monomer; 08-17-2009 at 08:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    10

    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    Here's a picture of the D15 in it's current location. I intend to move it to the right of the television, which will give it a near-corner position.

    A large majority of subwoofer setup articles I've read make strong arguments for corner placement. GIK Acoustics argues against it while Real Traps' Ethan Winer has his big ol' SVS sub in the corner along with one of his bass traps.

    Any real world experience and observations out there?

    The corner the D15 will be near is the only unoccupied corner in my 24' x 16' room, only half of which is used for home theater (the attached picture will make this clearer).

    I want to correct a statement I made in my original post about a possible null behind my primary seating. Must've been the material. There's plenty going on back there.

    Running frequency sweeps with an SPL in hand, there doesn't appear to be too many wild peaks and valleys in my primary listening area.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    Quote Originally Posted by monomer View Post
    Its important to realize that peaks can be attenuated using either Audyssey or the PEQ but you can NOT boost a null. A strong room reflection can compete with the direct signal source and if they meet up at your ear as crest-to-crest or trough-to-tough they will be additive and attenuation will work to lower the overall sound level at that frequency... however if they meet crest-to-tough they will tend to cancel (similar to how noise canceling headphones work) and boosting will cause equal increases to both crest and trough with the result being the same null. Keeping this in mind...

    In general this is what you should be looking to do...

    Pick a location for the sub that seems to eliminate or at least minimize any serious nulls from all the listening position(s). Then run Audyssey to attenuate any peaks and you will have the best in-room response possible. Its a relatively simple thing to do. I don't know what testing or monitoring equipment you have at your disposal or what you might be running for mains so to keep it really simple just download a sweep that covers the range from 10Hz-150Hz or there 'bouts and play it at approx. 75-80dBs over and over again as you sit in each of the various listening positions. You are listening for nulls, either full or partials... ignore any peaks you hear as they can be EQed out later. At a full null the sound will completely vanish, you cannot tolerate even a single full null... find another place for the sub. A partial null will cause the sound level to dip, if its not too bad don't worry about it as every position will have some dips, just find the sub position with the least and shallowest dip(s) and call it good. Hopefully you won't have to try more than 2 or 3 positions... most people with wives will find they only have 2 or 3 choices given to them anyway If you wanted you could use PEQ to remove any obvious offending peak and then let Audyssey take care of the rest.

    I personally don't think bass traps will help with smoothing freqs much below 80Hz... plus they can be very large while only resulting in a modest improvement. I use them myself but can't and don't rely on them to deal with room modes.

    Bottomline... sub positioning and listening locations are what you should try using to eliminate any nulls.
    Excellent post!

    Thank you!
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    Very helpful indeed!
    I'm in the process of building my semi-dedicated home theater room, and am considering different sub placement options.
    The room is basically 14x14, with a huge closet that takes a big chunk of space, but leaves a small free space at the back. It also has huge glass windows.
    The big cabinet represents my R12 SE, the narrow cabinets are my front Sierras, and there's also a big futon type sofa (main listening position)
    I will definitely try the "crawling technique", but from a pure theory approach, what do you guys think will be the best setup? A,B,C,D,E,F or G?
    Thanks for your help!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: png A.png (17.3 KB, 156 views)
    • File Type: png B.png (15.7 KB, 148 views)
    • File Type: png C.png (15.9 KB, 144 views)
    • File Type: png D.png (15.9 KB, 142 views)
    • File Type: png E.png (15.8 KB, 142 views)
    • File Type: png F.png (16.3 KB, 141 views)
    • File Type: png G.png (16.0 KB, 142 views)

  7. #7
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    Aug 2009
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    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    I think a lot of folks will tell you that you don't want to put the futon against the rear wall.

    You'll also hear that a perfectly square room is problematic. But it is what it is.

    If I were you, I would plan on putting the futon well away from the back room and then try the subwoofer in the various locations you've identified.

    I'd start with A, maybe move the futon even a little closer to the screen.
    Last edited by Mcpanse; 08-13-2009 at 04:28 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    A quick update. After trying the sub in the front right corner, I moved it back to the left of the television, as shown in the picture a couple of posts above.

    It didn't sound bad in the corner, but it didn't sound any better either and I prefer the way it looks to the left of the television. This placement also leaves the front right corner available for a bass trap when I finally make up my mind about all the options out there.

    I've thought about putting my turntable on top of the D15 but I'm wondering if the vibrations would wreak havoc with playback. As it stands, I don't have a spot in my current setup for my turntable. I've only a modest collection of vinyl, so it's not a big deal. My other option is to move my old sub into my home office and listen to vinyl in there.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcpanse View Post
    I think a lot of folks will tell you that you don't want to put the futon against the rear wall.

    You'll also hear that a perfectly square room is problematic. But it is what it is.

    If I were you, I would plan on putting the futon well away from the back room and then try the subwoofer in the various locations you've identified.

    I'd start with A, maybe move the futon even a little closer to the screen.
    Thanks for your answer Mcpanse.
    Although the room is technically 14x14x8, the floor to ceiling in-wall closet makes it about 12x14x8, with an odd free space in the back of the room.
    Didn't know the futon against the back wall was problematic. Why is that?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    10

    Default Re: Setup Questions from New Rythmik Owner

    Others could probably answer your question better than I.

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