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Thread: AV123 thoughts/opinions?

  1. #21
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    Sep 2008
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    Default Re: AV123 thoughts/opinions?

    I'm not certain I'm going to make very many friends with my very first post on your forum, but I feel a little balance and/or a deeper look is in order with regard to this....

    Now in fairness and being completely open, many of you who know me through other forums (quadriverfalls on AVS and AV123 - don't ask, it was my daughter's fault ), know that I'm considered to be/have been a fairly avid AV123/Mark Schifter suporter. I have also spent a lot of time with him at various get togethers around the country and frankly, developed quite a good friendship with him.

    Because of my participation in some of these gtg's (I was the chef ) several of which I flew in, rented a hotel and car.... all at my own expense.... he would gift me a pair of speakers for my efforts. I in turn have gifted all of those speakers to friends who needed or wanted new speakers. Not that keeping the speakers for myself or giving them away would have changed a thing in this equation, I just wanted everything out on the table.

    So, many or most of you may feel that my position on Mark is skewed because of the friendship and/or the gifts. I understand, as well as, accept and respect that. And, while I am certainly NOT all warm and fuzzy with the turn of events and the way things have been going over at AV123 the past couple of years, I DO feel bashing Mark and AV123 has become somewhat of a blood sport. Some of it deserved most certainly. Some, not so much I think.

    With all that being said, I like so many others, felt absolutely TERRIBLE when news of this raffle and it's outcome came to light. David, on a personal note.... you and your family were in the thoughts and prayers of more than you'll ever know, including mine. Losing a parent is never easy, but losing one the way you did, what you and your family went through.... just terrible. We ALL felt for you. Which made this accounting of the raffle all the more tragic because of it's perception.

    However, in the interest of being completely fair.... when looking purely at the bottom line numbers:
    http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/...&postcount=893 I personally feel that a full accounting was made with regard to the Sloan-Kettering donation. Now, semantics could certainly be argued that the prices of the goods, paypal fees and/or shipping costs should not have been deducted at retail - or at all, and in the end.... honestly, I would probably agree with you. But, since there was no mention (that I can find anyway) that the prizes/fees/shipping would be donated all or in part, I feel the accounting would stand any legal scrutiny.

    Again, I'm not totally happy with some of things that have happened at AV123 or with Mark. But, I also occassionally take issue when someone is continually taken behind the woodshed and pounded into oblivian when those doing the pounding may not know all of the facts.

    Thanks for allowing me to vent a little and sorry for being so long winded on my first post. I'll go slip into my flame retardent jammies, pour myself an Old Bushmills on the rocks spin up a nice Mozart Piano Concerto (with Horowitz tickling the keys of course) and call it an evening.

    And, FWIW.... I don't own any Rockets and have ALWAYS been a 340 fan. I simply love that speaker. Now, if I could JUST get Curtis to send me a pair of his Sierra's to try....
    Last edited by quadman; 07-05-2009 at 12:26 AM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    USA
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    5,538

    Default Re: AV123 thoughts/opinions?

    Quad,

    First off -- a sincere welcome to our forum and your thoughts / opinions are most certainly appreciated.

    I really don't want to get deeper into this -- especially in a public forum. If you feel a full accounting of the raffle in question was made, I take no issue and I won't argue the point with you, it is far too sensitive an issue for me.

    Look, I considered Mark a friend and I gave him the benefit of the doubt even when the actual "accounting" was very different than what was stated in his emails to me. All I asked for was an explanation. If he would have stated that he was short on cash or that times were tough -- something, anything at all -- I would have been OK, we would have worked something out.

    Instead, my last correspondence from him was: I promise as soon as possible reply. That was nearly a year ago and a day hasn't passed since that I haven't thought about it. Believe me when I say that I wish I could convince myself and say that everything has been accounted for... A beautiful memory of mine of has been forever tainted...

    One of the very last conversations I had with my father (prior to him losing his ability to speak) was sitting outside at the picnic table with my entire family and reading Mark's raffle to him. My mother and sister actually cried at the kind words and I could see that my father was choked up. It was a beautiful moment and one that now brings me pain as it is something I wish to forget about.

    honestly, I would probably agree with you. But, since there was no mention (that I can find anyway) that the prizes/fees/shipping would be donated all or in part, I feel the accounting would stand any legal scrutiny.
    There are those that are going to say the "numbers" work out fine, others that will disagree; personally, I really don't care what others think anymore. There are only two people who know the actual truth in the matter and let me just state that regardless of how you look at the numbers, it can not be denied that a profit was made by using my father as the subject of a *charity* raffle. If I would have known this, I would have had that raffle shutdown or my father's name pulled from it altogether.

    Since you mentioned legality, I would never pursue legal options. That would only make matters worse. My father taught me well with regard to business and people... Far more beneficial to be passive, observe and take careful notes, let people/businesses make their own mistakes and let them suffer their own consequences. All I want at this point is to forgive and forget, but I can't do this without hearing from the man himself.

    You have stated your opinion and I do respect it. Please respect mine as well and let us just leave it at that. I was hoping this thread would just die off. I will probably delete the entire mess as getting it off my chest hasn't helped. I don't like discussing it and I don't like thinking about it.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    2

    Default Re: AV123 thoughts/opinions?

    David.... First off, I apoligize that my post has stirred up any bad memories. Each and every one of us that were aware of your Dad's situation and what you and your family were going through were right there fighting along side you. You were constantly in our thoughts and prayers.

    As most on the forums are aware.... I have almost always stuck my neck out for the man and company without ever really thinking about it in the past. Honestly, this time it's out there pretty far and quite un-comfortable. So, maybe I should just keep my big mouth shut. Of course, those that know me understand I have trouble doing that most times.

    Like you said, there are only TWO folks who know the details (and really, an argument could be made that only one knows every fact), so actually, I shouldn't be saying anything at all I guess. On the other hand, like anyone, it's difficult to stay on the sideline while someone who you considered a friend is flogged mercilessly. He may deserve a lot of it, but it's still hard.

    For the record, if the accounting I linked is in fact what was used, then I too find the numbers reprehensible. I really do. The only reason I brought up the fact that it would pass any legal scrutiny, was because it would and that maybe should be taken into consideration. A different side, as distasteful as it is.... but a different POV for one to consider none the less.

    In closing, I am once again VERY sorry if I've re-opened the wounds associated with the situation. That was NOT my intention.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: AV123 thoughts/opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by quadman View Post
    David.... First off, I apoligize that my post has stirred up any bad memories. Each and every one of us that were aware of your Dad's situation and what you and your family were going through were right there fighting along side you. You were constantly in our thoughts and prayers.

    As most on the forums are aware.... I have almost always stuck my neck out for the man and company without ever really thinking about it in the past. Honestly, this time it's out there pretty far and quite un-comfortable. So, maybe I should just keep my big mouth shut. Of course, those that know me understand I have trouble doing that most times.

    Like you said, there are only TWO folks who know the details (and really, an argument could be made that only one knows every fact), so actually, I shouldn't be saying anything at all I guess. On the other hand, like anyone, it's difficult to stay on the sideline while someone who you considered a friend is flogged mercilessly. He may deserve a lot of it, but it's still hard.

    For the record, if the accounting I linked is in fact what was used, then I too find the numbers reprehensible. I really do. The only reason I brought up the fact that it would pass any legal scrutiny, was because it would and that maybe should be taken into consideration. A different side, as distasteful as it is.... but a different POV for one to consider none the less.

    In closing, I am once again VERY sorry if I've re-opened the wounds associated with the situation. That was NOT my intention.
    Hi Quad,

    Thanks for the kind words of support -- I can see that you too are hurting from this mess and feel somewhat betrayed by a friend. We should all be supportive of each other as that is all we really have left at this point as our friend certainly isn't showing any support for us.

    I can honestly say I wish only the best for Mark and hope that he can pull out of this fiasco in some way. However, my friendship and any association with him (both personally and professionally) is over, at least until he comes clean with me. As I mentioned to you in our PM, the only correspondance I receive from him these days is sale announcement after sale announcement.

    I just read the posts over at TCA and I just can't believe this -none if it makes much sense to me (or to anyone else for that matter) and perhaps it is best if we all just let it go and focus on our loved ones. I will not spend any more of my energy on this and neither should you (it isn't beneficial and it isn't healthy)
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    USA
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    Default Re: AV123 thoughts/opinions?

    My apologies but I have now "locked" this thread. Please understand that this discussion is too emotional for me and I simply do not like thinking about it.

    Thanks for understanding...
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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