Sierra .5?

[merrymaid520]

azanon,

I have to disagree that having sierras for surrounds would be unnoticeable. I recently had classic 170's for surrounds and just bought 2 sierras to replace them. Granted, they are most noticeable when playing multi ch music, but if you are a blu-ray fan such as myself and have the receiver/processor capable of playing the newer lossless codecs, the difference is definitley noticeable. The newer codecs carry more detailed information for the back channels and sometimes they reach fairly low for surround material. Having smaller less capable speakers back there will result in you missing out on some of the content the film mixer intended us to hear/feel. You need to experience this before assuming there is not a difference.

In conclusion, I believe a sierra .5's is a great idea mainly for surrounds to match the costlier sierra 1's.

[azanon]

azanon,

I have to disagree that having sierras for surrounds would be unnoticeable. I recently had classic 170's for surrounds and just bought 2 sierras to replace them. Granted, they are most noticeable when playing multi ch music, but if you are a blu-ray fan such as myself and have the receiver/processor capable of playing the newer lossless codecs, the difference is definitley noticeable. The newer codecs carry more detailed information for the back channels and sometimes they reach fairly low for surround material. Having smaller less capable speakers back there will result in you missing out on some of the content the film mixer intended us to hear/feel. You need to experience this before assuming there is not a difference.

In conclusion, I believe a sierra .5's is a great idea mainly for surrounds to match the costlier sierra 1's.

I'm sure I'd miss out on all kinds of rear channel information if I didn't have a VTF-3 Mk. 3 to handle sound below my crossover of 80hz! Yeah, I completely agree with you, if you're not using a sub, then you definitely want a LOT more back there than a HTM-200SE. But I can only but scratch my head wondering why your not crossing at 80hz (or higher) with blu-ray lossless audio and letting a sub handle that low sound that you're afraid of losing with mounted mains. I'm happy with the 80hz since it is THX recommended, and I always use a THX mode (ie: select 2 THX), with the only exception being those rare 7.1 lossless audio tracks. I like THX Select 2 for everything else, including lossless 5.1, because it expands the sound to 7.1 and supports my ASA configured back rear speakers.

If there's one thing I'm not missing much of, its low sound from any channel, including LFE. Thx VTF 3.3! In one of the threads at the top of the list Dave notes that one of the major design goals of the HTM200SE was to be able to accommodate the 80hz cross effectively. He says he succeeded and I agree with him.

My rear lossless information sounds tremendously detailed with the HTM200SE. Its possible that they do better with the "details" than the classic 170 did/does. Again, on surround duty only, including lossless quality, I just don't see room for improvement that would justify the cost in my mind. The only room for improvement I see in my setup would be any of my front speakers.

Again, I'll admit if a Sierra 0.5>HTM200SE and its at least as small as it, then I'll probably get one for my center channel since I'm very space limited there.

[merrymaid520]

Azanon,

I do crossover my mains/sub at 80hz. My explanation above really has nothing to do with x over points but rather the fact that surround material on blu-ray discs can dip below 80hz(x overs are not brick walls) so that having a larger more capable speaker such as a sierra versus the 200 SE's will result in a fuller sound from all directions not just the front soundstage. Besides playing below 80hz from a more capable surround speaker, you also get increased clarity, definition, and imaging. You agree that the sierra 1 is better than the 200SE for mains, correct? If so, why does this not hold true for sierras as surrounds over the 200SE's when lossless blu-ray movies send the same caliber material to any given speaker?

Again, I highly recommend you try this scenario if possible before assuming there is no advantage to a "better" surround speaker

Do you enjoy arguing with everyone on this board even when you have not heard/tried something....sorry just my observations......no offense really.

[azanon]

Azanon,

I do crossover my mains/sub at 80hz. My explanation above really has nothing to do with x over points but rather the fact that surround material on blu-ray discs can dip below 80hz(x overs are not brick walls) so that having a larger more capable speaker such as a sierra versus the 200 SE's will result in a fuller sound from all directions not just the front soundstage. Besides playing below 80hz from a more capable surround speaker, you also get increased clarity, definition, and imaging.

Not denying that it would be an improvement. If Sierra 0.5 is ultimately a better speaker than a 200SE, then you'd have to be right. Is it worth it though for surround material though? I hear you; you think it will be worth it for you. For me, it definitely will not be worth it.

You agree that the sierra 1 is better than the 200SE for mains, correct? If so, why does this not hold true for sierras as surrounds over the 200SE's when lossless blu-ray movies send the same caliber material to any given speaker?

I directly addressed why I didn't think it would be worth the money. Sure, money no object, a better speaker is a better speaker and that yields a better result. If you have to have the very best, Sierra-1 7.1 is the way to go if you're buying Ascend. I'm just pretty confident that's not the most ideal solution for a great majority of Ascend customers. The majority would be satisfied with 200SE's doing rear duty.

Again, I highly recommend you try this scenario if possible before assuming there is no advantage to a "better" surround speaker

When I actually say this, I'll take your advise in consideration.

Do you enjoy arguing with everyone on this board even when you have not heard/tried something....sorry just my observations......no offense really.

From my vantagepoint, there are several people, including yourself, who don't allow me to have my opinion and consequently start the argument. The argument doesn't start just because I have an opinion that doesn't resemble the monotone of opinions repeated 30 times already.

Most opinions here amount to blowing sunshine up Dave's ass. When that rare individual comes along that says what he really thinks and not just what someone wants to hear, a lot of people get bent out of shape, primarily out of jealously, and start an argument with someone like me. Case and point is you getting bent out of shape. I'd hand you a tissue if I could. I value truth and being real over people pleasing.

No apology on my rebuttal. If this just offended you, I consider it character building for you.

[azanon]

Dave said:

"I use an 80Hz crossover point with my pair of HTM-200 SE Remember, these are a sealed speakers and the bass roll-off is 1/2 the rate of ported speakers (12dB/octave vs. 24 dB/octave)

When the 200 was updated to the 200 SE, an 80Hz crossover point was one of the primary goals.

Please let me know if I can be of any additional assistance."

And Dave, I think you fully succeeded with that 80hz goal, from my personal observation. Congratulations.

[Mag_Neato]

So, being offended regularly builds character?

Azanon, you are a VERY colorful character, indeed.

[merrymaid520]

azanon,

I believe to me it was worth the price of admission but as you mentioned, it may not be worth it for you or others out there, again YMMV. My main point was to simply point out that money no object, the sierra(or any larger, more competent speaker) will simply outperform a smaller, less capable speaker for surrounds and to most will be noticeable if your listening includes blu-ray or Multi Ch music discs. I am in no way putting down the 200SE's, I own 2 pair actually and love them for their size/cost!

As to your last part of the post, of course you are allowed your opinion as anyone can have one here. The problem is that you post your opinions under the assumption everyone agrees with you, and that is why I felt I would post my findings(not solely opinion) that a good surround speaker is a definite improvement for most material not just M ch music.

I am not bent out of shape,upset, or trying to start an arguement with anyone. I simply have found different results by actual comparisons(not just opinion) and figured I would post it to help others out there make decisions.
I simply post my findings and don't do it to benefit Dave F or anyone in particular. In fact, I am looking to replace a few of my sierras with some Salk Song Towers with the Ribbon Tweeter. Yes, I did compare the two side by side on my equipment and the Salks are a great tower and a step up over the sierra, as they should be for the price.....just a side note showing I am not a complete ascend "fanboy"

Anyway,
We may agree to disagree on some points, thats the great thing about this hobby, so many different options out there to please everyone.

Take care and sorry if I came off to harsh,
Brandon

[curtis]

IMO...the use of surrounds in movies is becoming more and more involved, and more so with 5.1 music. There is still a large catalog of SACDs and DVD-As, and with the new uncompressed 5.1/7.1 codecs, I think we will be seeing/hearing even more.

Azanon, I think actual experience and comparison is what you really need to do. Your initial reaction is primarily of the "what I have is best for me and I will argue in favor of that without trying what is suggested". I think your track record shows that your initial opinion before actual experience is very different than your after experience final opinion. Your latest subwoofer scenario of your SB12 vs something that has deeper extension is a prime example of that.

[DougMac]

Most opinions here amount to blowing sunshine up Dave's ass. When that rare individual comes along that says what he really thinks and not just what someone wants to hear, a lot of people get bent out of shape, primarily out of jealously, and start an argument with someone like me. Case and point is you getting bent out of shape. I'd hand you a tissue if I could. I value truth and being real over people pleasing.

Azanon,
Many of us here including me, think you argue for argument's sake. There's often heat, but not much light.

This forum is associated with a company. It will naturally attract those users who are satisfied with the product. I'm not quite sure what you expect.

I think you confuse rudeness with "truth". You've been opinionated in the past, but here I think you're just being rude.

Doug

[Quinn]

Most opinions here amount to blowing sunshine up Dave's ass. When that rare individual comes along that says what he really thinks and not just what someone wants to hear, a lot of people get bent out of shape, primarily out of jealously, and start an argument with someone like me. Case and point is you getting bent out of shape. I'd hand you a tissue if I could. I value truth and being real over people pleasing.

No apology on my rebuttal. If this just offended you, I consider it character building for you.

If you value truth why don't you actually try the Sierra 1s out instead of dismissing them, and the opinions of those that have owned both the Sierra 1s and 340s, from your preconceived bias/reasoning? Must be nice to know the truth without hearing the Sierra 1.