Denon avr2809ci a good match for Sierras?

[sbeveraggi]

I'm looking for an upgrade to my current Onkyo TXSR505 receiver (which sometimes has a problems driving my Sierras at loud volume levels) and am considering the Denon 2809ci.
Do you think it is a good match sonically speaking? Too bright, too warm? Or are other brands like Yamaha, Marantz, Pioneer, HK better?
It is said to have 115w p/channel, which should be enough. But I know most of the times this measurements are exaggerated.
Thanks!

[azanon]

Why not a higher level/updated model Onkyo? I hear Onkyo is really putting out some nice receivers for the buck provided you pay for a high end enough model to give you serious watts. I run a Marantz and love it, and the top two models they have have nice quality amps, but they're pretty pricey.

[sbeveraggi]

Why not a higher level/updated model Onkyo? I hear Onkyo is really putting out some nice receivers for the buck provided you pay for a high end enough model to give you serious watts. I run a Marantz and love it, and the top two models they have have nice quality amps, but they're pretty pricey.

Thanks for your answer, azanon.
5308 and 4308 are too expensive for me.
From what I've been researching, the power difference between 3808 and 2809 (can be had now for $750) is slight, while there's a $500 difference. For $599 I can later buy an Emotiva amp if needed, and get a lot more power.
I'm thinking of Denons mostly because:
-Reliability and SQ
-Audyssey MultiEQ XT, as my living room has no room treatments, lots of windows and hardwood floors. Besides, it also provides provides decent bass management. This is said to be the best roomEQ/autosetup available on receivers.
-DynamicEQ, as I often listen at low volume levels also.

Don't know if the Denon type of sound is a good match for Sierras, though. Maybe they tend to be too bright, too warm, etc...

[DougMac]

I'm looking for an upgrade to my current Onkyo TXSR505 receiver (which sometimes has a problems driving my Sierras at loud volume levels) and am considering the Denon 2809ci.
Do you think it is a good match sonically speaking? Too bright, too warm? Or are other brands like Yamaha, Marantz, Pioneer, HK better?
It is said to have 115w p/channel, which should be enough. But I know most of the times this measurements are exaggerated.
Thanks!

I have some questions. What does "sometimes has a problem driving my Sierras at loud volume levels" mean? What are you observing that leads you to this conclusion? How big is your room?

I regard an increase from 75wpc to 115wpc as an incremental increase. As I'm sure you know, the relationship between volume and wattage output is logarithmic rather than linear. You should also consider THD and dynamic headroom. If it truly is a power deficiency, I think you'll need significantly more power than provided by the Denon. It's been my observation that gobs of good clean watts don't come cheap.

Doug

[sbeveraggi]

I have some questions. What does "sometimes has a problem driving my Sierras at loud volume levels" mean? What are you observing that leads you to this conclusion? How big is your room?

I regard an increase from 75wpc to 115wpc as an incremental increase. As I'm sure you know, the relationship between volume and wattage output is logarithmic rather than linear. You should also consider THD and dynamic headroom. If it truly is a power deficiency, I think you'll need significantly more power than provided by the Denon. It's been my observation that gobs of good clean watts don't come cheap.

Doug

Hi Doug, thanks for your answer.

-My living room is aprox 24x12x8, with a listening area of aprox 12x12x8.
The seating distance from the speakers is 8 feet.
-I notice distortion mostly in the bass at very high volume levels.
-Checked http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html to get some kind of abstract reference about power needs.
-According to wikipedia, Dynamic Headroom is 1. (electronics) the ability of an amplifier to handle strong signals (or loud sounds) free from distortion. Is there some kind of measurement receivers use to specify that?

I hear many Sierra owners with separates or very hi-end receivers that really push their speakers without any distortion...
In your experience, how much power is recommendable for the Sierras to achieve very high volume levels, while maintaining a clean sound?

[DougMac]

Hi Doug, thanks for your answer.
In your experience, how much power is recommendable for the Sierras to achieve very high volume levels, while maintaining a clean sound?

Well, being an old geezer I don't crank it much anymore, plus I don't own Sierras! I've got 340SEs.

I'll have to defer to Curtis or Dave or many others smarter than me.

Be that as it may, here's my 2 cents. Since you're having problems with bass notes at loud levels (can you give us an SPL at listening position?), you may be running into physical limitations of the Sierra's. From my understanding, to play bass notes loudly, you have to move a significant amount of air. The tools at hand are radiating surface (hence 15" subwoofers) and excursion. The less radiating surface, the more excursion needed. The Sierra has a 5 1/2" LF driver. To reach deep it relies on a long excursion, but there are limits. Instead of amp distortion, you may be reaching the limits of the driver. Throwing more power at it may not help.

Do you have a subwoofer? If not, I know of a great company that sells some terrific subwoofers ;-). If you like it loud, maybe you need to let a sub do the heavy lifting of the bass. I cross my 340's over to a sub at 80hz and I can drive you out of the room with no distortion.

Doug

[azanon]

-Audyssey MultiEQ XT, as my living room has no room treatments, lots of windows and hardwood floors. Besides, it also provides provides decent bass management. This is said to be the best roomEQ/autosetup available on receivers.

Ok....

But if it were me, I'd probably still opt for the cheaper Onkyo, then use the savings to help pay for a very large rug to go on top of that hardwood floor in your living room, and some think drapes (with those big loops) to go on those windows. From a sound perspective, I'd put that approach up against a Denon using Audyssey any day.

I had the chance to hear my dad's Harmon/Rockets in a room before he had put any carpet in, and with open windows, and no structure on the walls (no paintings, ... bare, nothing). To say the sound was unpleasant would be an understatement.

Onkyo still doesn't have Audyssey? They need to get with the program. My results so far with it haven't been that stellar though.

[sbeveraggi]

Ok....

But if it were me, I'd probably still opt for the cheaper Onkyo, then use the savings to help pay for a very large rug to go on top of that hardwood floor in your living room, and some think drapes (with those big loops) to go on those windows. From a sound perspective, I'd put that approach up against a Denon using Audyssey any day.

I had the chance to hear my dad's Harmon/Rockets in a room before he had put any carpet in, and with open windows, and no structure on the walls (no paintings, ... bare, nothing). To say the sound was unpleasant would be an understatement.

Onkyo still doesn't have Audyssey? They need to get with the program. My results so far with it haven't been that stellar though.

I sold my Onkyo receiver, together with the rest of the Onkyo HTIB to a friend. I only have my new pair of Sierras left, and want to build a better living-room Home Theater around them.
The first thing I'm buying is a replacement receiver, add a F12SE to get to 2.1. Then add a pair of small but good looking surrounds for 4.1 with a phantom center, and finally a Sierra center for 5.1.
My budget for room decor is very flexible, so I can buy drapes and carpets whenever I (she) wants.
My home theater budget is VERY restricted, so any chance I get to convince her about a purchase I have to make the most of it. Wives

[sbeveraggi]

Well, being an old geezer I don't crank it much anymore, plus I don't own Sierras! I've got 340SEs.

I'll have to defer to Curtis or Dave or many others smarter than me.

Be that as it may, here's my 2 cents. Since you're having problems with bass notes at loud levels (can you give us an SPL at listening position?), you may be running into physical limitations of the Sierra's. From my understanding, to play bass notes loudly, you have to move a significant amount of air. The tools at hand are radiating surface (hence 15" subwoofers) and excursion. The less radiating surface, the more excursion needed. The Sierra has a 5 1/2" LF driver. To reach deep it relies on a long excursion, but there are limits. Instead of amp distortion, you may be reaching the limits of the driver. Throwing more power at it may not help.

Do you have a subwoofer? If not, I know of a great company that sells some terrific subwoofers ;-). If you like it loud, maybe you need to let a sub do the heavy lifting of the bass. I cross my 340's over to a sub at 80hz and I can drive you out of the room with no distortion.

Doug

Unfortunately, I don't have an SPL meter...
I have a cheap Onkyo sub crossed over at 60hz, but I have just sold it to a friend. I will be replacing it with a F12SE shortly to handle all the heavy bass lifting.

[davef]

Sbeveraggi,

At these loud volume levels that you describe with deep bass material, I STRONGLY recommend you add a subwoofer as soon as possible.

While the Sierra-1 offer impressive bass, these are still bookshelf loudspeakers and you might be pushing them too hard.

I do try hard to defy the laws of physics... haven't quite been able to, at least not just yet