my Sierra-1 et al story

[Mia & Lana's dad]

Just had the pleasure of having three fellow Sierra owners over to experience the current setup. Thanks for the visit guys!

[curtis]

Very impressive listening session...thanks for having us over.

Dave.....I think the two of you are on to something with those stacked Sierras!

[mziegler]

That visit was a blast--we need to sample more there.

I felt like I needed a cigarette after WOTW.

[davef]

Just had the pleasure of having three fellow Sierra owners over to experience the current setup. Thanks for the visit guys!

So sorry I missed this! Was out running errands for most of the day

Ron, got your message late and thanks for the invite. Sounds like it was a great time!

[sivadselim]

So..................

What is the package deal price for the 12 Sierra centers?

[Jonnyozero3]

So sorry I missed this! Was out running errands for most of the day

Ron, got your message late and thanks for the invite. Sounds like it was a great time!

Hey Dave,

I got into a discussion over on Hsu's forum about this stacked Sierra config. I saw in post #73 you mentioned the strengths and weaknesses of the setup, but didn't mention anything either way about lobing or combing. Are those an issue at all with the Sierra's running in such a manner? Or does the crossover work essentially make that a nil consideration? Just curious

[Mia & Lana's dad]

Look that guy was very condescending. I bit my tongue over there, but I won't stand for that crap if he continues.

[Jonnyozero3]

Yeah, he doesn't phrase things well. I was being nice.

That said, i'm still curious if there is a tradeoff with lobing or combing. Please DON'T get me wrong - not trying to poop in any cheerios or anything, just want to get a full picture. Personally, as soon as I saw this, I started considering using four-some's of sierra's up front I just like to have as much info as possible. Personally, from dave f's comments, and your responses, I'm guessing that the benefits far outweigh the tradeoff's, if any.

So, my pardons if I was being too accomodating to him, but curiousity got the best of me. And I respect your restraint. For what it's worth, it was noted on my part immediately...

[Mia & Lana's dad]

Patronizing while hiding behind a politically correct post is not constructive and sends mixed messages. He just came across very closed minded and elitist to me. Instead, asking questions to open discussion even if one is set in their ways on a subject would've been a better approach than the insulting path he took. Or perhaps give placement suggestions to explore and demonstrate the "physics which cannot be deceived."

[davef]

So..................

What is the package deal price for the 12 Sierra centers?

If you are serious, send me an email and we can discuss your requirements and expectations (whether the stacked array of Sierra-1 are the right solution for you).

Hey Dave,

I got into a discussion over on Hsu's forum about this stacked Sierra config. I saw in post #73 you mentioned the strengths and weaknesses of the setup, but didn't mention anything either way about lobing or combing. Are those an issue at all with the Sierra's running in such a manner? Or does the crossover work essentially make that a nil consideration? Just curious

Hi Jon,

Like all things audio, every design is a compromise at some point. I read that *post* over at Hsu's and it is what I like to call a half-truth. Due to a general lack of knowledge, lobing has gotten a bad rap - seems it is always associated with being a bad thing which is only 50% correct. Vertical lobing is a good thing, it is what makes MTM speakers so popular and so successful in the marketplace. A large vertical lobe decreases vertical dispersion which diminishes the effect of ceiling and floor bounce, reducing reverberation which increases intelligibility. (see Ron's un-EQ'd measurements and notice the reduction in the dip at 180Hz as compared to the single speaker measurements, this is floor bounce) Intelligibility of a loudspeaker can be thought of as a ratio between the direct sound of a loudspeaker and the background noise in a room. The less background noise, the more clarity. Same general principle as acoustically treating a room.

Ron's setup should be considered a vertical line array, quite common in the loudspeaker industry and even more common in sound reinforcement applications. The taller the array, the more limited the vertical dispersion becomes. Provided the listener is within the lobe (listening height is not above or below the column), vertical lobing is beneficial. Vertical line arrays also project sound a bit differently than a conventional loudspeaker, with the rate of SPL decrease with reference to distance being about half that of a conventional loudspeaker. For example, at 2 meters away with the same voltage level, the line array will sound louder and cleaner.

In addition to the advantages as described above, there will be major improvements with regards to distortion, headroom capability and dynamics.

Are there disadvantages? Certainly -- if not seated within the vertical lobe clarity will be diminished rather than enhanced. Horizontal dispersion is slightly reduced but this would only become a problem if seated at an off-axis angle of 20 degrees or greater from either stack. In addition, this type of setup is not recommended for extreme near field listening or extreme far field listening where there can be frequency response changes.

Due to the unique phase integration of the woofer and tweeter, which closely emulates single point source radiation up to about 20-25 degrees, the Sierra-1 works exceptionally well in this particular application, far better than our other products.

Ron's requirements were unique... He loves the sound of the Sierra-1 but desired more. His primary requirement was that he wanted the ability for extremely high sound pressure levels while maintaining clarity (a serious problem for many rooms as room effects before more pronounced at higher levels). In addition, Ron seldom listens off-axis and never in the near field. He has acoustic room treatments on the front, rear and side walls but he has a wooden floor and I don't believe the ceiling is treated, thus limiting vertical dispersion became high priority. Considering all of these factors and after many discussions about the pro's and con's, only then did I begin running various tests of the stack. To my surprise, and as I mentioned before, the stack actually far exceeded my expectations.

In addition, the type of line array offers benefits over a typical multi-driver line array.

1. Each woofer is in its own dedicated and damped enclosure. There are no modulation effects between woofers because they do not share the same cabinet volume.

2. Considering all of the individual enclosures and the fact that each of these enclosures are laminated bamboo, cabinet resonance and energy loss will be dramatically less than a typical floor standing line array -- I would wager less cabinet resonance than nearly any floor standing loudspeaker on the market.

3. There are multiple crossovers being used. A typical line array uses a single crossover for all of the driver elements (each driver being directly connected to the same crossover output). With multiple crossovers; saturation effects, distortion and heat are dramatically reduced due to current being equally distributed between all of the crossovers as opposed to a single crossover network. At extreme listening levels (high current) this becomes a tremendous advantage.

Some people who read this thread will see this as a gimmick or even a juvenile attempt to sell a lot of loudspeakers. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ron's solution is what defines acoustic engineering, designing a sound system that meets or exceeds the challenges set forth... With that in mind and from the various comments I have received from those lucky enough to experience it in person, expectations and requirements have been met

Look that guy was very condescending. I bit my tongue over there, but I won't stand for that crap if he continues.

Agreed, I say invite him over for a listen

Patronizing while hiding behind a politically correct post is not constructive and sends mixed messages. He just came across very closed minded and elitist to me. Instead, asking questions to open discussion even if one is set in their ways on a subject would've been a better approach than the insulting path he took. Or perhaps give placement suggestions to explore and demonstrate the "physics which cannot be deceived."

Loved that statement, "physics which cannot be deceived". Nobody is trying to deceive physics, quite the opposite actually. I strongly suggest this person do a little research on antenna theory and wave propagation, the actual "physics" of which is well documented...