Sierra-1 Sale??? Federal Rebates

[Mr.Lawrence]

Just thought I'd offer a suggestion.

[davef]

Just thought I'd offer a suggestion.

Thanks... Truly wish we could but the margin just isn't there We are trying our best here to avoid raising prices across the board. Our tweeters (from Norway) have risen nearly 25%, woofers have increased close to 30%, shipping charges (both incoming and outgoing) have risen dramatically and the cost of bamboo has skyrocketed (mostly due to the fall of the dollar and the rise of the RMB).

We are doing our very best to cut-back in order to keep prices the same through 2008. However, at this point I just don't know. As my rep from SEAS commented only a week ago, "it is really getting tough out there"...

[BradJudy]

Yeah, the combination of the dollar taking a beating and increased fuel/food costs worldwide are pointing to some more expensive days ahead in general.

Here's a graph of the USD against the Chinese RMB (Yuan):



It used to be based on the dollar (notice the flatline section) and then they shifted it to being based on a general world market (largely Euro) and it's been downhill since then.

And the Euro over that same time period.



The last two years have been a steady decline.

[Jonnyozero3]

I for one welcome our new communist overlords.



edit: note to self - start bamboo farming in Nebraska.

[azanon]

Thanks... Truly wish we could but the margin just isn't there We are trying our best here to avoid raising prices across the board.

Its too bad there's no creative/politically correct way to put on you guys website in red letters with exclamation points, that "In celebration of the Federal Rebates, Ascend has decided not to raise prices on the Sierra-1!!!" when normally the continued decline of the falling dollar would dictate that you need to, to maintain reasonable margins.

Though I've said this at AVS, I"ll say it here: I actually appreciate that you have decided to price your speakers fairly from the get-go, rather than take the approach that AV123 does where occasionally, they drop their prices in half (and presumably still make a healthy profit). That's the sort of thing that would have me never considering the "black font" (scam?) prices. I know you and Mark are friends, but I just disagree with that business model approach. To me, a normal sale for a $300-400 pair of speakers is to take $50 or so off. You simply can't take $200 off a previously, fairly priced $300-400 speaker pair. Anyway, I like this approach because not only is it a more ethical way to do business (IMO), it also makes it possible for me to be able to reasonably consider an Ascend speaker upgrade at any time in the year, rather than having to wait up to a year for a temporary, non-price gouged price to be offered.

[GirgleMirt]

Nice point. That's what I dislike about audio shops. They put a sticker with an exaggerated price and then you have to haggle to get the 'normal' price... So someone with good negotiation skills might pay 1200$ for an item, someone with poor skills maybe 1400$ and someone unfamiliar with the antics might pay the full blown 1600$ price. Why the overblown price tags? Just to 'screw' people, way to charge more for an item.

AV123 is similar. Pay something 1000$, a few weeks later the same item is on sale for 50% off. How is that possible? I've read that speaker margins are like 100%, costs 250$ to make or buy, sell for 500$. So when on sale, AV123.com gets 0% or do they have really really high profit margins to begin with? Someone once said you have to be stupid to buy anything at full retail from them, well, I'm sure many would disagree, but in a practical kind of way, I wouldn't waste money buying full price, I'd just wait for the sale... But even that, see, 'the sale'... Is it really a sale or is it just priced normally?

It's just a way to attract sales. People are always looking for bargains. Seeing something at 50% off is hard to pass by, but in truth, when you're getting 50% off on a item selling for twice the value from the get go, you're not really saving any money now are you? I'd actually even qualify that as a scam... It's really popular on boxing day, or you can see it mostly everywhere on the price tags: "Normally 199.99$, selling 99.99$!". Yeah I'm sure that's really worth 200$... Shop around and everybody is selling for 99.99$, what a great 50% off 'sale'...

Also sales must kill resale value. Sell a speaker you paid 2000$ for when it was on sale for 1000$ brand new for how much? 1500$? 1000$? 500$?

In contrast, with Ascend, you can be pretty damn sure that what you pay for a speaker will be very close to what somebody might pay for on sale at a later date, if there is such a sale... I wouldn't hold my breath for a Sierra sale, and if situation allowed and there was one, it would be what, as said, maybe 50$ off? 100$ off max? I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who bought them B-Stock + introductory pricing, and so even with a sale would have actually payed less... But if I had purchased something from AV123 instead, then it really would have been possible to have paid 2000$ for something, then a few months later see the thing on sale for 1000$... And that would suck.

[BradJudy]

You guys are putting out a lot of specific numbers about AV123 pricing and margins without knowing the actual numbers - I'd be careful with that type of talk, if for no better reason than keeping things to specifics that you know.

They definitely have products with a variety of margins, some go on pretty deep sales, others don't. It's a different business model than Ascend, and there are reasons to prefer either.

I like that the resale value of an Ascend product is pretty stable due to the business model and that I don't wonder if I'm buying at the best time of the year.

[azanon]

You guys are putting out a lot of specific numbers about AV123 pricing and margins without knowing the actual numbers - I'd be careful with that type of talk, if for no better reason than keeping things to specifics that you know.

I wouldn't dare do that. Christmas 06' AV123 had several of their Rocket speakers for exactly half price. There's a brief discussion between MLS and I somewhere buried at AVS forums. I just recall not being satisfied at all by his explanation.

This past Christmas... the sales were more modest (understatement) - guessing in the 30% off price range without actually doing the math.

They definitely have products with a variety of margins, some go on pretty deep sales, others don't. It's a different business model than Ascend, and there are reasons to prefer either.

If it's working, then I can understand it. Doesn't mean I have to personally like it or respect it even.

...............

Anyway..... I appreciate Dave's efforts for keeping the Sierra's at a steady price while he can!

[davef]

Hi Guys,

Mark Schifter is my friend and I have infinite respect for both him and AV123. AV123 is indeed a different business model than Ascend and both have merits. We co-exist peacefully these days and that is a great thing. The one thing we all have in common is that we are trying to put out quality products and maintain very reasonable retail pricing during a time where this industry (in particular) is experiencing dramatic cost increases.

I run Ascend according to what best fits my skill set, persona and personal integrity and Mark runs his as to what best fits him. He has earned much respect from me over the years and while consumers will disagree and take sides, I feel it is important for one side to fully respect the other (I most certainly do).

Thanks for understanding!

[azanon]

I want to be clear that I don't want to make my one complaint on this very specific point with AV123 to be bigger than it is. I simply don't agree with that approach on pricing because I know I'd be upset if i were the one to pay the full price one month and one day before the half-off sale. However, it didn't stop me from recommending a full set of AV123 speakers to my dad after he decided that the Ascend design wasn't going to be optimal for what he was looking for.

I really intended for the emphasis to be more a praise on Ascend's approach; that's all.