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Thread: An important discussion / evaluation on recent blind shootout.

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by audibleconnoisseur
    I just love to listen and I have hearing that allows me to hear near every sound audible and some that should be inaudible. Wouldn't one assume the best way to compare (allowing for money to be no expense) speakers is to have multiple receivers of the exact same model & settings hooked up and then use an SPL from the LP and then start testing?
    But you'd also have to use identical amping, cabling, sourcing, etc which could end up being cost prohibitive. All things being equal...

    FWIW, I think that this thread title should be changed to remove the quotation marks around the word "blind". I think that it insinuates that the error (if there was/is one) was intentional and it seems a bit defensive and critical when the Sierras actually performed very well in the shootout. Just my opinion, but I feel that it's an additional jab at Craig that isn't necessary.

    Jason

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post
    But you'd also have to use identical amping, cabling, sourcing, etc which could end up being cost prohibitive. All things being equal...
    Yes, this what I am saying. If money is no issue, isn't the best way to test them - is to use same amp and settings that are adjusted by SPL at the LP?

  3. #23
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    It was a blind test. No one knew what speakers were behind the screen(black grill cloth) at any time during the tests. The participants were given about 20 minutes per round to listen, Craig used a remote to operate the switcher, waiting about 30 seconds to a minute between switching. There was 3 rows of seating, and listeners rotated on intervals a'la volleyball style. This gave listeners all possible listening positions in the room. If one speaker sounded better in one position, it was worse in another. The Sierra was a favorite, only falling to the Swans in this instance. Craig stated before and after testing that he paired the test speakers based on closeness of sensitivity, to avoid needing to apply excessive amounts of attenuation with the switcher. I think he took all conditions into account given the information/equipment available. All Craig did was host and setup the event. The scoring was done by the testees. It is much more difficult to score speakers than I had imagined. It is very subjective.

    Let's give Craig a little credit here, and if we have doubts, try doing this on your own. It's not easy.
    Ed

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    The scoring was done by the testees.
    Ha, ha, ha...! He said testees...

    I agree with your post and wish I could have been there, too. Craig worked very hard here and didn't ask for anything in return.

    Jason

  5. #25
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    Once Craig went officially public in Affordable Audio everything about the procedures became fair game.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post
    Ha, ha, ha...! He said testees...

    I agree with your post and wish I could have been there, too. Craig worked very hard here and didn't ask for anything in return.

    Jason
    Well, Craig did refer to himself as a di**head!
    Ed

  7. #27
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    Default Pot calling the kettle black

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post

    Let's give Craig a little credit here, and if we have doubts, try doing this on your own. It's not easy.
    I'm all for giving credit when it's due. However, I have seen some posts from Craig himself ridiculing someone else's efforts. I think the reviewer at the time criticized the Minis from av123. You might find those posts on av123's forum.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam1000 View Post
    I'm all for giving credit when it's due. However, I have seen some posts from Craig himself ridiculing someone else's efforts. I think the reviewer at the time criticized the Minis from av123. You might find those posts on av123's forum.
    I believe it originated from a review done by a regular and respected member on the Sound and Vision forum.

  9. #29
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    It's good to see Craig's notes as well. I like that he picked pairings that required the minimal amount of adjustment to level match.

    I agree that the use of quotes around the word blind is not appropriate here. The participants did not know which speakers were playing when they did their scoring.

    I expect it could be impossible to come up with a comparison approach that made everyone happy, just look at some of the other issues people on the S&V forum brought up.

    In the end, the reason there is conflict on these subjects is the opposing views of the consumers. Some think you should only judge for yourself, some want comparisons to narrow the options, some want comparisons so they can pick something sight unseen, some want specs and graphs, some want qualitative descriptions, etc. Not to mention the huge variety of opinions of what makes a proper room, proper other equipment and even a proper listener. Add to that the general subjectivity of opinions and it can be a futile effort to get any consensus.

    Whatever you think of Craig's event, he tried much harder than most people to make it impartial, so I salute that effort.

    I fall into the camp of: "Buy whatever the hell you want and don't worry about what other people think". Buy it because it sounds nice, because the specs look good, because the salesman's name is Frank, because it's purple, because it fits in the back of your car and the other ones don't, because you like the website, because it's what you want to buy.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradJudy View Post
    Whatever you think of Craig's event, he tried much harder than most people to make it impartial, so I salute that effort.
    As one of the participants, I also salute him. I thought it was fairly obvious that no one should make a buying decision based solely on these tests. Considering the number of speakers, number of participants and limitations of the testing area, it was amazing that anything useful was derived at all. Craig is one of the few who could pull it off. None of my fellow participants who I spoke to felt we would make a buying decision based on what we heard during the demos. We were all well aware of the limitations. The listening session wasn't even a main topic of conversation at dinner. It was fun and a different way to experience the hobby. It was all good. Just not anywhere near definitive. I'd do it again if given the opportunity. Thanks, Craig.

    David

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