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Thread: An important discussion / evaluation on recent blind shootout.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradJudy View Post
    I think we can do without this. I expect Craig didn't know that this approach would have this kind of impact - it's not like he's out to get all speakers with higher sensitivity specs.
    Agreed... there is no blame in any of this. Nevertheless, it is important to understand that no one should use these results as a basis to make a purchase. This is a learning process and I am sure things will be corrected next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by BradJudy View Post
    I imagine one of the few ways to do a good level-matched blind test would be to have a pre-amp with multiple outputs that allows you to set a fixed attenuation on each output. I know the Meridians will let you set different attenuations on inputs, but I don't know if they will do outputs.
    This is one way or someone could build up a low-level switching device. I use a low-level switch box, 2 pre-amplifiers and a multi-channel amp.
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    David Fabrikant
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  2. #12
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    Unfortunately, I have a feeling the S will hit the fan when this reaches AVS. Everyone will throw a big fit, and Craig will declare that he'll never do another speaker review again.

    Oh, and at some point in the thread, Pulliam will reaffirm the FACT that Def Tech speakers are the best speakers in the world.

  3. #13
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    What I am a little baffled about is that Axiom would not know? They made the switch and apparently use one in their own evaluations. My sources tell me that they have hired a reputable journalist that used to work with Floyd Toole so I am at a loss to understand what is going on from their point of view.

  4. #14
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    BradJudy, looking at your avitar I can see why you are so sensitive to the vitual punch in the neck.

    That is something my brothers and I share whenever we pull a bonehead move.

    I agree with everyone else that Craig does contribute alot. Obviously he didnt see the pattern that Dave did. Had he...

    Next time I'll go with the virtual toe stomp instead. We need a sarcasm icon thingy. Is there one?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyb View Post
    What I am a little baffled about is that Axiom would not know? They made the switch and apparently use one in their own evaluations. My sources tell me that they have hired a reputable journalist that used to work with Floyd Toole so I am at a loss to understand what is going on from their point of view.
    I was surprised at this too. Although I don't know what Axiom uses in-house for speaker comparisons. From my understanding, these switches were made several years ago. Reallistically, there isn't anyway around this if level matching and switching are done after the power amplifier. I would guess it is a matter of convenience, a quick comparison rather than critical listening.

    One option is to build a variable stereo L-Pad, this could lessen the effect of series resistance but still not an all-things-being equal situation. It is complicated.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
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  6. #16
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    So it is back to square one.

    Let's remember another thing--even if Craig's methods were perfect, it is not as if one can definitively prove anything in a momentary shoot-out. Time matters.

    And perhaps the Swan is a better speaker.

    Not that it really matters to me. Ascend Acoustics has reintroduced music into my life in ways I never imagined.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mziegler View Post
    So it is back to square one.

    Let's remember another thing--even if Craig's methods were perfect, it is not as if one can definitively prove anything in a momentary shoot-out. Time matters.

    And perhaps the Swan is a better speaker.

    Not that it really matters to me. Ascend Acoustics has reintroduced music into my life in ways I never imagined.
    Thanks mzeigler... It is really not about what is the "better" speaker. This was a technical discussion. I was happy with how our Sierra-1 did, but in one of the tests in which it was rated higher, the competing speaker had to be attenuated so I consider this comparison invalid too, even though the results favored our product.

    The overall knowledge level of the online audio community is increasing dramatically. In some ways, I suspect the average online audio enthusiast who reads and participates in the various forums is armed with more knowledge than your typical B&M salesperson. This is a good thing of course and it should continue.
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    David Fabrikant
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  8. #18
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    Hello all,

    Craig Chase's response:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post11849414

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I was surprised at this too. Although I don't know what Axiom uses in-house for speaker comparisons. From my understanding, these switches were made several years ago. Reallistically, there isn't anyway around this if level matching and switching are done after the power amplifier. I would guess it is a matter of convenience, a quick comparison rather than critical listening.

    One option is to build a variable stereo L-Pad, this could lessen the effect of series resistance but still not an all-things-being equal situation. It is complicated.
    That makes sense. Since we don't know how they use it or what they a/b, hard to say.

  10. #20

    Default Question for the layman...

    I just love to listen and I have hearing that allows me to hear near every sound audible and some that should be inaudible. Wouldn't one assume the best way to compare (allowing for money to be no expense) speakers is to have multiple receivers of the exact same model & settings hooked up and then use an SPL from the LP and then start testing?

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