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Sean...
Your explanation on the existence of the speakers stands is acceptable. But maybe you should tell some of members of the church of Mark LS that same reasoning.
Because many of them are suggesting that risers are needed to place the tweeters precisley at ear level, and that is the reason why the Rockets sound muffled...among a million other things.
So it's not so much your opinion that turns people off...it's your over zealous followers/worshippers.
Lou the dog hit the nail right on the head.
I auditioned a million and one speakers when I was buying. If a speakers has good highs, it has good highs. Raising the speaker a few inches off the ground is NOT going to change the inherent nature of the tone. It might make a slight difference, but not enough to make a muffled speaker sound open. Rockets ARE considered a LAID BACK speaker...general consensus seems to agree on AVS forum and the such. If a speaker needs to be perfectly aligned with the ears (as suggested by some of your posters), there is something wrong with the speakers dispersion (or whatever the term is).
Do you really think that one of the first steps to gain better sound from a speaker is to junk a Denon 3803 and buy seperates? It's those types of suggestions that are off the wall that I was poking fun at.
So maybe you should try educating some of your followers.
Take Lou The Dog's statement with a little seriousness, because I believe it is doing your company more harm than good.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So maybe you should try educating some of your followers.
Take Lou The Dog's statement with a little seriousness, because I believe it is doing your company more harm than good.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
That's the irony of what you're saying Jake.... you're actually trying to help them by pointing out the err of their ways. I wonder if anyone at their company realizes that. I think its obvious your motives are not just to critize just for the sake of doing so. If I'm understanding you correctly, you probably wouldnt even mind owning a pair of rockets if the price were fair. Am i wrong?
I know the couple comments I made were for the same reasons. The rockets sound like great products...... if the price were fair. For example, the RS250, from what i've read, is a very competitive product to the cbm170. Problem is, one cost 328 and the other (currently) 600. But all of us know based on this last christmas its really a $349 speaker, which would account for the slighly less performance in the mid/high range, though compensated for by the wood cabinet. As for its bass performance, what enthuist cares about low bass performance anyway since 90% of us will be sending all those frequencies below 80hz to our subs?
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Jake, I do understand what you are saying...there just isn't a lot I can do about very enthusisastic customers posting...I've sent private messages to those that have been a bit too hyper about it all and it helps sometimes but there are always new people joining. So, it's go the super-moderated route OR let the people reading the forum read between the lines and form their own opinion on weather or not to read/trust a particular persons comments...
>>>Because many of them are suggesting that risers are needed to place the tweeters precisley at ear level, and that is the reason why the Rockets sound muffled...among a million other things.<<<
That is just a small part...most speakers will sound rolled off when the tweeter is below ear level due to the way the ear processes sound coming from below...try this with the 170s. I have. (but I get what you are saying)
>>>ARE considered a LAID BACK speaker...general consensus seems to agree on AVS forum and the such<<<
Unfortunately this is left-over mis-information from the 'classic' version of the XO. The highs were rolled off a bit giving the speaker a soft sound. To be truly laid-back, you need a dip in the vocal area of the midrange and the Rockets do not exhibit this. The new Sig XO bumps the top end to flat so no more soft sound. They arent't bright but they are not soft like before...
>>>Do you really think that one of the first steps to gain better sound from a speaker is to junk a Denon 3803 and buy seperates? It's those types of suggestions that are off the wall that I was poking fun at<<<
Generally no. The 3803 is great for the money. I only say generally because I personally can not use the 3803 for 2 channel because I have heard way too many excellent set ups and the 3803 just is not good enough for me anymore. It's a personal thing...but I do not recommend replacing a 3803 just like that...I talk to my customers at length to find out what they want to improve etc. This stuff is uniquely personal for everyone so I try and understand the best I can before I recommend something. This includes me suggesting returning the speakers if I don't think they will work for them in the end.
>>>So maybe you should try educating some of your followers.<<<
I want to be cool here but you yourself have posted several items that were incorrect so I would say that education for all involved would be beneficial but you who are asking me to educate are not even doing this yourself...what can I do?
>>>Take Lou The Dog's statement with a little seriousness, because I believe it is doing your company more harm than good<<<
I agree. This has always been the case. Take the famous Bob_A from AVS...he got an entire forum to hate Def Tech speakers because of his posts (he was a BIG fan). All I can say is read between the lines and know there are over-zealous people affiliated with pretty much anything you can possibly think of...it's human nature. You have to be smart enough to filter this yourself. Being a customer advocate is good but can be taken too far. It comes to the point where you start belittling the very people you are trying to help...as if they are not smart enough to research on their own. I've received many an e-mail to this effect...
Anyway, that's my POV.
Thanks for listening.
Sean
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sean Parque
All I can say is read between the lines and know there are over-zealous people affiliated with pretty much anything you can possibly think of...it's human nature. You have to be smart enough to filter this yourself. Being a customer advocate is good but can be taken too far.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sean....this is a HUGE point and I totally agree. But to a newbie it is very difficult. It is an art form that takes time to develop. Advocacy helps these newbies, but must be done in a correct manner.
The point about the risers and the need for tweeters to be at ear level is totally understandable. But take a look at the Rocket Riser webpage and tell me if that is what is being stated.
http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=19.1
To a newbie, it reads like the risers will improve sound regardless. That is quite bothersome, and IMO, deceiving to a newbie.
How does a newbie read between that? No where in the description does it say that it is only necessary in certain situations.
Advocacy is a great thing, but where should it start and end? Where should moderation start?
-curtis
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Azanon and Jake,
One simple question, have either one of you even HEARD any Rocket product. EVER???
Christian
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There are lots of awesome sounding floorstanders that benefit from an aftermarket base or riser. The Linn Ninka for one...those speakers sound awesome...stick em' on their special base and they sound awesomer. Is "awesomer" a word? How many times can I use the word "awesome" in a sentence?
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oontahey
There are lots of awesome sounding floorstanders that benefit from an aftermarket base or riser. The Linn Ninka for one...those speakers sound awesome...stick em' on their special base and they sound awesomer. Is "awesomer" a word? How many times can I use the word "awesome" in a sentence?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
It may not be a real word, but I have heard it many times. [
]
Anyways, if the base makes them sound better regardless, then why not include them with the speakers?
-curtis
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Curtis, Mark Levinson hardware would certainly make my speakers sound better!!! I am going to call AV123 and find out why they diddnt include this either!
Christian
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Curtis,
Using that rationale, why don't we just include everything with the speaker that can make it sound better.
It's called business - and this is probably one of the first pages in the 101 textbook. Why doesn't my Toyota have "auto" windows all around? It's better, right? So why not include it? Get David in here, and he'll explain to you first hand the tradeoffs that have to be made to introduce a product in a target market. The CBM-170's are no different. What's the major criticism I see on these speakers...one word - looks. So why doesn't David make a speaker using solid Honduran Mahogany? Surely he'd sell more, right? COST.
Start a business, Curtis...build a product from the ground up in a factory YOU paid for, and then MAYBE you'll get it.
Steve Ozmai
steve@av123.com
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Probably the cost. I can only speak for the Linn, as I have not heard the rocket. You don't NEED the riser if you don't want to spend the money, they sound super sweet as is. But putting it on the stand seems to bring more out of it. (So does making them active but that is a whole nuther ball of wax). I don't know what I am talking about, but it seems to me that selling aftermarket gizmos does not imply an inferior product (I buy aftermarket stuff for my most excellent truck all the time)....just smart business selling extra stuff to a base that can, will, and wants to support it. And I agree! "Awesomer" is an official word here at ascendforum!
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