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I got the feeling that Curtis was hit by a punch intended for Jake. This is like a chaotic bar room brawl over whose girlfriend is better-looking. Steve just came out shooting and fired without IFF. (Identify friend/foe).
You like a blonde, I like a brunette. Big deal.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">WHO is the one that is implying that our SOCS makes a $1500.00 speaker sound like a $40,000.00 speaker? WHO is stating that the Risers are "necessary" to make the 750's "sound better?" If it's not Curtis then I sincerely apologize - seriously - and it's my bad (I'll delete the post if so). If it IS Curtis, then my argument stands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I havent seen anyone here say that, either directly or implied - so no need to wade through the forums here. The only suggestions I saw regarding improving the 750s performance were those made by MLS in his first response to Santa at you guys forums in that RS750 vs 170 review. A few of us here snickered about his comments, obviously exaggerating his suggestions for humor, but it was certainly nothing to get defensive about.
Azanon
(edit) ... and Curtis definitely didn't participate, as its not his style.
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I think Steve@av123 was writing without reading. I just read the whole string (putting it in WORD so I wouldn't feel a need to post too soon) and Curtis comes off as reasoned and reasonable. As a /moderator/.
Steve comes off as something else, and shouldn't post so fast if he is a representative of AVS. It puts the company in a poor light.
Sorry, Steve, but you cannot plead "not enough time" to go through the posts, unless you want to read and lurk. Please be sure of who said what, and to whom, before making accusations. Take your time, even if you don't have the time.
Pegleg
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Wow. lots of peacock feather struttin' lately! lol.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Ozmai
Curtis,
Boy...where to start? I guess this is as good a place as any...
Quote: Yes, Ascend does sell speaker wire, a third party brand. But nowhere on this forum has anyone said "the Ascend speaker wire will make your speakers sound better."
So you're actually stating that the speaker cable sold by Ascend has no sonic value whatsoever, but is purely for looks? But wait a second - what about this...
Quote: The very notion of Rocket Risers implies that "we know that enough of you will need to raise the speaker to make it sound better, so we offer the risers".
Hmmmm...seems somewhat of a contradiction to me. Your argument is so flawed I don't even know what angle to refute it from. Using YOUR rational, as stated above, does not "the very notion" of speaker cable offered for sale through a speaker manufacturer imply an improvement? It must, otherwise there would be no reason to carry it...correct? Surely David's not going to tell me I will hear absolutely no difference whatsoever by using the expensive cables he sells - but is this what YOU are stating?
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Just wanted to clarify some info on the speaker cable (and I'm sure Curtis will be here eventually to speak to this and your other boisterous critiques of his post).
My understanding is the reason Ascend offers speaker cable has more to do with it being a convenience to buyers of their speakers. Questions such as "where should I get speaker cable from?" or "what kind?", etc. come up quite often. So, as a courtesy, they offer some fairly decent basic inexpensive cable for those people. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I also highly doubt that it's based on any grand profit motive (I think the cable they offer is pretty inexpensive stuff), nor is it based on any extensive testing of cables to find just the perfect cable for Ascend speakers.
None of this is to suggest in any veiled sort of way that the Rocket Co. is supplying cable or whatnot for robber baron profits. I don't know enough about them to even begin to suggest something of the sort.
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Onix cable was reasonably priced when I bought mine from av123.
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Thank you for the post, Greg. I agree with you and appreciate your opinion. I'm not judging any intent on Ascend's part to selling speaker cable - we carry our own line of cable as well.
My problem with this post was the implication that an "accessory" is, by default, a required necessity to ellicit a given response promised by the manufacturer. This has no truth whatsoever and is a flawed argument, hence the speaker cable example. No hidden agenda here...that's it.
Steve Ozmai
steve@av123.com
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Ozmai
Quote: Yes, Ascend does sell speaker wire, a third party brand. But nowhere on this forum has anyone said "the Ascend speaker wire will make your speakers sound better."
So you're actually stating that the speaker cable sold by Ascend has no sonic value whatsoever, but is purely for looks? But wait a second - what about this...
Quote: The very notion of Rocket Risers implies that "we know that enough of you will need to raise the speaker to make it sound better, so we offer the risers".
Hmmmm...seems somewhat of a contradiction to me. Your argument is so flawed I don't even know what angle to refute it from. Using YOUR rational, as stated above, does not "the very notion" of speaker cable offered for sale through a speaker manufacturer imply an improvement? It must, otherwise there would be no reason to carry it...correct? Surely David's not going to tell me I will hear absolutely no difference whatsoever by using the expensive cables he sells - but is this what YOU are stating?
Thank you for putting words in our mouths, Curtis, but the truth is we do a pretty good job of this ourselves. Should you actually care to know the reason for the Risers, you would find out that these were created specifically at the request of several RS 750 owners for reasons not isolated specifically to sonic improvement. The most notable of these is stability. The 750 is a fairly narrow speaker with a somewhat small footprint. As a result, our customers with this speaker on a high-pile carpeting, or with dogs, children, high traffic areas, or other reasons for concern tend to need something with a slightly larger platform. Rather than create 2 accessories - like many companies have done ("outrigger" supports and stands) - we created the Risers to solve a couple issues simultaneously. We've never spoken, though you seem to know what I'm thinking before even myself. However, had you actually called me on this one, you would have learned that in many instances I will advise against the 750 Risers depending on the room environment. They are certainly not necessary for everyone, and are not "needed" to improve the 750 anymore than an Ascend customer MUST have wall mounts and speaker cable.
But I see your point - we should be punished for offering this, and any other accessory for that matter. You know, I wasn't going to buy the lens kit for the new digital camera I purchased, but I guess I have to now - if they're offering it, it must be the only way my camera works well!
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Steve, do you truly think these are apple to apple analogies? So lets look at why the risers exist: Because the floorstanding speaker is unstable or because they are necessary for sonic improvement, correct? In either case, it makes the product "better", right?
Speaker cable at Ascend: Convenience. Wallmounts: Convenience
Please explain to me your logic for the comparison as you referenced it.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Ozmai
Quote: SOCS - What is the claim that it will do? That for $1500, it will make a $1500/pr of speakers sound like a $40,000 pair? There is not even a set release date for this product, yet there are already reviews on how well it performs, and the reviews are not written by a third party. Who is the target audience?
I love this one. Where exactly did we say that it'll make a $1500.00 speaker sound like a $40K speaker? I can't seem to find us stating this anywhere...oh yes, I forgot...YOU are speaking for us now. I'm going to cut this one short...please do me a favor, Curtis, and don't post on subjects you have no first hand knowledge on. SOCS is currently in beta test, and the reviews you have seen thus far are from these beta testers. Please give me your definition of third party, because I think we're getting crossed here.
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Steve, the $40K was in reference to Eric D's post earlier in this thread, which as been discussed and cleared up. The reviews I have read are posted by individuals that have an affiliation with AV123. Third party would mean, no affiliation. Beta testers that own company products for whom that "testing" for, are not third party. Your apology is accepted.
Eric D's post did not imply that it would the speaker sound like a $40K speaker....he used it as an example. I just used the same example.
Let me know if I missed anything, because I will respond to every shot taken.
By the way Steve, what did YOU think of the soda-pop analogy?
-curtis
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Steve O. -
While it may have been an honest mistake you represent AV123 and need to take the time to represent av123 in a good light and not pop off on someone about posts another person made. If you don't have the time to make sure who said it don't respond.
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Pegleg,
To have a discussion, it is the responsibility of the writer to make his opinions known, and to make the reader aware if the views expressed are not necessarily his own. I do this in my posts, and expect the same from others - perhaps that is assuming a bit more than many are capable of. Read Curtis' post, and his post only, and develop your own opinions - I have expressed mine based on what I read. If his intentions were different, I have acknowledge fault and submitted an apology - quit trying to create controversy when there is none. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. If I'm not, then my argument stands. It could not be any more black and white.
Steve Ozmai
steve@av123.com
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There would more understanding if you read the whole thread.....that is why it is a thread.
-curtis
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