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Thread: trigger happy

  1. #21
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    ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. #22
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    Calm down...you don't have to read it.

    Sheesh, just having a little fun.
    I though the internet was supposed to be fun?

    By the way...a new batch of wire just arrived from Mt. Doom.
    Lemme know if anyone wants a pair. It won't make a physical difference in your sound, but psychologically it will.

  3. #23
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    OK....so I get back from dinner to read this stuff. Lets chill a bit. Tomorrow, like DF suggested in his letter to us, I will create a section for "Humorous Musing" with some kind of disclaimer stating they are only personal opinions and are read at your own risk.......or something like that.

    As for wire....I agree, my new speaker cables that I made do not seem to make a difference, but I like they way the look.

    -curtis

  4. #24
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    My last post was an attempt at closure too, and I felt like Bob and I were getting there. I agree, lets not continue beating this issue anymore.

  5. #25
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    Humurous Musings? lol. I think i'll pass. If i get in the mood to rip an individual or company a "new one", i'll go with AVS, Inc. Agree Jake? This is America baby, and i'm all for maximum exposure if I feel convicted enough about something or I think some unfair practices (to consumers) are occurring. This forum has few enough visitors as it is. Besides, arn't we defeating the purpose of that (annoying) disclaimer when you enter the site anyway?

    As ive heard MLS say more than once.... you're entitled. Damn straight i am MLS, but thanks for pointing that out anyway :-).

    Azanon

  6. #26
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    This post is to Azanon in specific and others in general. To everyone, I’m sorry for the length this grew to – good luck reading it if you choose. Jake the troll: have what fun you will - I will continue to enjoy laughing *at* you.

    Azanon, I also like some bite in my humor, but I’d like to share a feeling that’s developed over a few years of living. To ensure the humor is enjoyed I believe you need to make the friend *first* and then make sure they understand when you are using humor. That being said, we are all still human, and make mistakes in what we say and write. Sometimes things need to be retracted if it becomes clear they were misunderstood.

    Now to the bulk (and it is bulky) of my message. IMO a lot of misinformation has been stated (mostly by the aforementioned Jake), and many have seen red too much to respond well. Anyway, here’s my rambling take on a lot of the bashing that’s been going on:

    I laugh at comparing the CBM-170s to the Rocket 750s. That a comparison would even be interesting shows what value is available with the Ascend monitors. I actually tune that out as the only comparison I’d be interested in would be bookshelf to bookshelf - the 170s vs. 250s, or Onix Ref1 for that matter.

    Re speaker measurements: I'm not knowing how the speakers were measured, but it seems obvious to me that if you put the microphone too near to one part of the speaker and some drivers are more distant, that the speakers aren't going to sound "right." The drivers extend a large physical distance on the 750s while the drivers on the 170s are right next to each other.

    I'd also guess that one could use the CBM-170s as nearfield monitors and place them near your ears - heck, maybe even strap them onto your ears. The same goes for other bookshelf/monitor speakers (personally, I happen to like headphones - I find them lighter. []) Interestingly, I'd also think that a tower speaker that uses only two drivers could be used that nearfield – it just comes with it’s own stand built in, Ok, maybe the larger enclosure buys you something too. However, the 750s have a driver array, take some space for the soundwaves from the driver array to coalesce. That can be bad for some applications but good for others. What do I get out of the whole discussion: that 750s shouldn’t be used as headphones.

    Re SOCS: SOCS is for *any speaker.* It just happens to have been demoed on the 750. Heck, if you want you could use that “$1500 program” for $100 speakers. The interesting question is, is it better to spend $40,000 for speakers, or $100 + $1500. It’s an audiophile question. Without the extra $1500, don’t ask it. It is *not* $1500 more to correct a $1500 mistake.

    IMHO, this technology is going to be a lot more widely applied in the future. It’s something to enjoy speculating about as it is only just about to be born. One speculation is that sometime in the future, when you buy your Ascend CBM17,000s and they will come with a little flashcard. You plug that flashcard into your receiver and it will do the correction. My personal hope however is that they will license the full RCS system to receivers, including the MMK programming and coefficient derivation software. It's probably a HTPC thing...

    Re cables: Hmmm, Ascend sells speaker cables. Jake's malicious comments could be used there just as well. Why isn’t plain zipcord enough? The same goes for high-end vs. throwaway interconnects – that’s a whole different flame war that will rage forever… It's just brought in here for machine gun effect.

    Re 750 stands - I agree with his point, but in no way his phraseology. Interesting also that Ascend has speaker stands for exactly the same price as the Rocket Risers…. In general, I increase the cost of any monitor speaker by the needed price of stands. Maybe the 750s are just monitors with a 4-driver woofer array. (OK, so they still suck for nearfield applications [] ).

    But I'd like to return to the whole “how to conduct ourselves on these kinds of forums” question. I for one marvel that we get to interact with all levels of people from the audio world on these forums. There are the people creating the products, like Mr. Fabrikant or Mr. Schifter. I am respectful to these people. To me, it’s an amazing opportunity afforded us by the internet - I think it’s a shame to waste it by insulting them. I may have no interest in a micro-cube/bass module Lifestyle system; but I would not treat Omar [edit] Amar [:I][/edit] **** with anything but respect and I’d be mightily interested in what he had to say.

    There are people who’ve spent a lot of time on this hobby – from them I hope to “cheat” and avoid the lessons they may have painfully (expensively?) had to learn. But many of them are highly opinionated. I listen to what they say, try not to insult them, and take what they say as anecdotal. Here, I apply a quote from Dr. Dean Edell: “The plural of anecdote is not data.”

    Then are others like me, who want to learn, share a little of what they see, and maybe a little humor. There’s a lot of us out there, some of them pretend to more knowledge than they have. To that end I remember a phrase from a long time ago (I can’t remember the source for it however): “The Internet is an exercise in anarchy.”

    Finally, there are those I can’t understand, nor do I enjoy, Here’s a quote from Robert Heinlein from which I derive how I treat them: “Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate–and quickly.”

    I am in *no way* advocating any kind of violence. In applying it here, I make major effort trying to understand wherever someone comes from in their writing. If I can’t find any way to read it that makes any kind of sense, or if it seems needlessly malicious – I dismiss it and don’t let it aggravate me.

    In *major* risk of being pedantic, I hope this has been helpful. It is my way of trying to give back to the forums that have given so much to me.

    enjoy,

    Eric


  7. #27
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    Eric,

    Glad to see you here, and thank you for your thoughts.

    You post here and the points you have made or tried to make, will open up more questions and debate.

    Yes, Ascend does sell speaker wire, a third party brand. But nowhere on this forum has anyone said "the Ascend speaker wire will make your speakers sound better".

    Speaker measurements - Mad Dog posted measurements of the ELT, RS750, and Ref1. His findings were not near the AV123 specs. But, his methods were not questioned. Can you explain to me why? Whose specs are more accurate?

    SOCS - What is the claim that it will do? That for $1500, it will make a $1500/pr of speakers sound like a $40,000 pair? There is not even a set release date for this product, yet there are already reviews on how well it performs, and the reviews are not written by a third party. Who is the target audience?

    The stands for the Ascend monitors vs Rocket Risers you have shown is not apples to apples. It is implied that monitors should be a certain height, and to achieve this, you place them on something. This is not the case for tower/floorstanding speakers. The RS750 is sold as a floorstanding speaker. Or are you implying misinformation? The very notion of Rocket Risers implies that "we know that enough of you will need to raise the speaker to make it sound better, so we offer the risers".



    -curtis

  8. #28
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    Cables: best to say I'm a wire agnostic and leave it at that. I've had my poor RatShack interconnects publically "dissed" before.

    Speaker measurement: I'm only replying to Jake's tirade, which I was I believe about the measurements taken at the Oregon speaker mfr location. Please *do* question MD's methods - heck, I question them; and I question Tom Nousaine's methods with subwoofers for that matter. I also question Sterrophiles objectivity. There's all kinds of methods for speaker measurement, and knowing what was done (and by whom) might help you evaluate what worth it provides to you. If you think this is bad, look at subwoofer comparisons. [:0]

    SOCS: Who presented anything as an independent "review?" I think we've been lucky to get reports from inside parties. The most interesting thing from MD or hectic1's reports to me has been that these people who like their Ref1 monitors for two-channel audio now find the SOCS-equipped speaker is competition.

    I'm one who (I consider myself lucky enough to) got to hear a pre-release demo. I did write up my comments on audiocircle, but it was intended as "WOW! wait for what's coming up." I also wanted to explain an analogy I'd had that day comparing audio-frequency spectral smearing to how an image looks when you look through a prism.

    Who knows how long this technology will take to trickle to more widespread application (if it will at all). The only recommendation I'd make right now is that if someone had a P-1A in hand that they might not want to sell it, or if you found one cheap and were curious about SOCS, it might be a real-good deal - Nothing more.

    The demo happened to be on a 750, but to me a valid statement would be that the CBM-170s with SOCS might sound better than [your choice of $3,000 monitors]. That was the intended point of saying this technology is confusing (ticking off?) some of those who have been chasing this ideal with lots of dollars.

    And IMO I totally agree with the price of the 750s being the price of the 4-driver-array monitors and their stubby stands. Or put them on your own little platforms. Or cut down the legs on your sofa. Or sit on the floor. Maybe a mistake was made in the design - I don't know. Maybe they should include the risers and raise the cost.

    One could raise the question of why the CBM170s don't come with a prettier design or don't cost as little as a pair of Fluance monitors. It is a specious argument. How much do you want to pay for your speakers? Do you like how they sound (and look)?

    But as to how Jake put it? To borrow from Bull Durham (and hopefully a smile to some people's faces):
    "Well, I believe in the soul, ...[edited out for family hour], the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good Scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter, I believe in the sweet spot, soft core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long slow deep soft wet kisses that last three days."

    And I believe that "Jake"'s purpose is to inflame, not to inform through humor.

    enjoy,

  9. #29
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    FYI...

    The SOCS relesase coming up is ONLY for the 750's.
    It was ONLY programmed for the 750's, I believe, according to MLS.

    Marketing, Marketing, Marketing
    ****, ****, ****
    Garbage, Garbage, Garbage.

    Again...my opinion.

  10. #30
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    Jake,

    There has been mention that SOCS will be available for other speakers later down the road, and that there will be a "kit" so people can customize the software for whatever speaker they own. If the later happens, then I think we can see some more interesting posts.

    Eric,

    You have heard a SOCS on a RS750? Can you point me to where you posted your thoughts?

    -curtis

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