trigger happy

[pegleg]

Ascendites for those of us (us?) who are dogmatic.
Ascenders for those who want to keep upgrading.
Ascendees for spouses of that just above.

Pegleg

[Derek]

Mark,

Thanks for posting here!

The socs appears (to me at least) to remove the poor room acoustics at the digital level. So, is the ultimate goal to produce a perfectly flat response at the listening position, or produce a response that matches what the speaker should sound like in a chamber?

If the answer is the former, wouldn't that essentially make all speakers sound about the same? If so, then a $100 speaker should sound almost exactly like a $10,000 speaker. Also, wouldn't you be removing the trademark "laid back" rocket sound? This is basically what the guys in the htpc forum on avs did in the digital room correction thread. Also, if your boosting the signal quite a bit, wouldn't the speaker require lots more power? I also assume that this only works on two channel pcm streams, not multi-channel dd or dts streams. Correct?

However, I am guessing that the answer is the latter, due to the fact that you are building a database of speakers which (I don't think) would be necessary if you are just trying to flatten the response.

Also, how large of a "sweet spot" does this create? How bad do the speakers sound outside of this area?

I have been playing with software based parametric eq's to equalize my sub, basically becasue I'm too cheap to buy a bfd and I like to tinker. Socs sounds like a much more advanced version of this.

Thanks again,
Derek

[jake]

Sorry to break it to you MLS...but no one is going to pay $1500 to "fix" a $350 speaker.
If fact, you'll find very few who will pay $1500 to fix a $1400 speaker.
What's the point exaclty?
If you SOCS was priced at around $100, then maybe I can see the interest.

But for $1500? Will it make it sound better than a $3000 pair of speakers? Maybe, maybe not.
If SOCS is so great, why ever buy a pair of expensive speakers...I can just apply SOCS to a $200 pair of CC Lsi's (ha...I'm still awaiting your proof on that one...just for those who don't know...MLS tried to justify his 50% off sale by saying the POLK LSI's were on sale at Circuit City for 60-70% off. CC doesn't carry LSI's if you ask me. MLS promised me proof...still waiting.)

Even if it does make a slight difference, you'll never sell many copies at that $1500 price tag.

Not many people buy a $10,000 car, then spend and additional $30,000 to make it better. Most people will take the $40,000 and buy a better car to begin with.

Take my advice, don't even bother tyring to market your $1500 SOCS to anyone who might be considering ROCKETS or ASCENDS. Anyone who might be considering spending $1500 of a speaker "fixer" sure as heck isn't going to buy speakers in the price range of ROCKETS or ASCENDS.
You need to be targeting the multiple tens of thousands of dollar speaker owners.

Why the initial roll out of the ROCKET 750's? Isn't your ONIX line your reference line? Isn't THAT your "musical" speaker? Why target the ROCKET owners who all seem to under the same idea that ROCKETS are meant for HOME THEATER? Easy audience to market to for obvious reasons?

[curtis]

jake,

In all fairness, I believe SOCS is more aimed at folks that already have the P1A. People with that piece of hardware are more interested in two-channel right now. If you have a P1A, then SOCS is $400, as oppose to $1500.

My question would be how many RS750 owners actually have a them set up for two-channel, and have a P1A?

The P1A itself is definitely targeted at higher end two channel listening, so once the self calibration kit is available($200?), or more speakers are in their database, I think it is a reasonable assumption that these owners of P1A's will be willing to see what SOCS can actually do for them.

True, people like us Ascenders, bought them because of their great value. I for one, no matter how good SOCS is, will not be willing to spend money on a P1A and SOCS. Making my CMT-340's sound better is not an issue for me, I am quite happy with their sound, and I would rather spend that $1500 on somethingelse or put it in my kids' college fund.

That doesn't mean that I am not very curious about the improvement SOCS makes.

-curtis

[curtis]

To make this thread even longer......

nhan and cjsparky, I really hope you guys can get together and check out each others speakers/systems.

-curtis

[Eric D]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jake

Sorry to break it to you MLS...but no one is going to pay $1500 to "fix" a $350 speaker.
If fact, you'll find very few who will pay $1500 to fix a $1400 speaker.
What's the point exaclty?
If you SOCS was priced at around $100, then maybe I can see the interest.

But for $1500? Will it make it sound better than a $3000 pair of speakers? Maybe, maybe not.
If SOCS is so great, why ever buy a pair of expensive speakers...I can just apply SOCS to a $200 pair of CC Lsi's (ha...I'm still awaiting your proof on that one...just for those who don't know...MLS tried to justify his 50% off sale by saying the POLK LSI's were on sale at Circuit City for 60-70% off. CC doesn't carry LSI's if you ask me. MLS promised me proof...still waiting.)

Even if it does make a slight difference, you'll never sell many copies at that $1500 price tag.

Not many people buy a $10,000 car, then spend and additional $30,000 to make it better. Most people will take the $40,000 and buy a better car to begin with.

Take my advice, don't even bother tyring to market your $1500 SOCS to anyone who might be considering ROCKETS or ASCENDS. Anyone who might be considering spending $1500 of a speaker "fixer" sure as heck isn't going to buy speakers in the price range of ROCKETS or ASCENDS.
You need to be targeting the multiple tens of thousands of dollar speaker owners.

Why the initial roll out of the ROCKET 750's? Isn't your ONIX line your reference line? Isn't THAT your "musical" speaker? Why target the ROCKET owners who all seem to under the same idea that ROCKETS are meant for HOME THEATER? Easy audience to market to for obvious reasons?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Jake, the "initial roll out" isn't for the Rocket 750s. In his own words [my bolding]: "We used our own Rocket RS 750 for this phase of the beta program as this was convenient for all parties working on this. I didn’t feel like going out and buying 8 or 9 pairs of (say) B+W N802’s etc. "

But I think you're right - he won't sell many for the Rockets, and approaching (asymptotically?) zero for the Ascends - that isn't the market. At the price point of a P-1A (or P-5) plus the software, it will be for people who are willing to spend more. Like maybe those with $5,000 speakers looking to make them sound like $40,000 (or better?) (Althought at those prices, IMO they are starting to pay for unique appearance or just bragging rights.) Or maybe those who want might think about $5,000 speakers or want to see if $1400 + $1500 will do just as well.

You said: "Not many people buy a $10,000 car, then spend and additional $30,000 to make it better. Most people will take the $40,000 and buy a better car to begin with. " I say, but there are some who will buy a $10,000 car, add $3,000 in wheels and tires, and another $2,000 in stereo, and another $1,000 in a ground effects, and another $2,000 in a custom paint job. BTW, have you seen what some people will pay for a turntable, tonearm, or cartridge? What ever happened to my old phonograph?

Anyway, you're right on target about whether or not Ascendateers are a target audience. But they might be for trickle-down technology. Maybe the cost *will* get down to $100 in a few years. Maybe a subset of the technology will be used to correct crossover phase differences, giving a large percentage of the benefit for a fraction of the cost. Then it's my bet you would be interested - especially if $100 is also the cost of a cup of coffee at Starbucks by that time. []

Heck, I wish they had debuted the cost of 50" plasma screens at $1000 myself. But if they haven't come out at $10,000, then they never will get down in price to something I'm willing to spend. Are you saying they shouldn't have HDTV because you can't do it for $500 yet?

But I'm with you - good sound at affordable costs. Get as much improvement for as little dollars as possible. I'm hoping for inexpensive digital amps, a standard high definition audio format, and cheap front projectors with HDTV resolution. Could you please "sic" some of your wit in the direction of getting those for me? [}]

enjoy!

[cjsparky]

JAKE!!! You always miss the point, and always come off so damned confrontational...This product is for people who fly first class, who spend 100's or 1000's for a freaking needle for their turntable, for people who MOD their Mark Levinson hardware. For people who really want to get the most sound out of their systems. There are 30K Pre/Pros out there... there are also 10K pre/Pros out there that could me modded to be just as good as 30K Pre/Pros!!! Just because you dont understand something, does not mean it is bad...Ok? Just b/c you cant see a market for something dosent mean it dosent exist...3500 pieces of the hardware in circulation now (thats the expensive part) ready for the upgrade...Not for folks like you, O.K? or ME for that matter!!! Bottom line though, THIS WILL CHANGE THINGS IN THE INDUSTRY!!!!! dont be frightened of it though Jake...its not going to bite you...I promise

[curtis]

Just a thought here....lets be civil all the way around. This is possibly a good discussion that is not just looking from mostly one side.

On top of that, I believe digital speaker correction(which I think this is...please correct me if I am wrong) has been around for a while, so the technology itself is not ground breaking. What will be ground breaking is if this technology does trickle down to people like me.

-curtis

[jake]

Sorry sparky, I believe it is you who is missing the point.

Point is, maybe there is a market for this "tuning" software...but it sure as heck isn't the Rocket/Onix or Ascend listeners.

Rocket/Onix and Ascend listeners are "Budget" speaker buyers. Very few, if any, will part with $1500 for a NON-refundable tuning software. Why market SOCS here or on the ROCKET forum?

Go to some higher end $8-$100000 speaker websites and market the product over there.

Also, for the other guy who mentioned that people spend money on car upgrades...wheels, tires, computer chips, etc. don't generally add up to 100-300% of the price of the car.
If someone spends $40K on a BMW 330, chances are they won't be spending another $40K to fix it up. That's the point.

MLS is barking up the wrong tree if he thinks advertising here is going to generate any business.
I'm not sure why David would OK Mark to come over here and market his gimmick\niche product.
I didn't buy Rockets for that exact reason...so much over the top marketing it makes you sick.
When a company can "Throw" in a free Denon 3803 when you buy a speaker package, that means the speakers are way over priced.

I don't want to see all that damn marketing mumbo jumbo over here.
It's like a constant commercial over at the church of MLS.
Keep the ROCKET marketing crap over there.

[Lew Crippen]

An interesting post after the moderator requests a civil discussion.