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Thread: Why does compressed music sound worst on hifi speakers than headphones?

  1. #1
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    Default Why does compressed music sound worst on hifi speakers than headphones?

    Title asks it... For example, one of my favorite band is Modest Mouse. Sadly, their sound engineer really sucks and it sounds nowhere as good as their albums would deserve...

    Which leads me to the question. At work I can listen to them and it sounds pretty good. Basically, Sony V6 studio headphones plugged on computer, playing VBR 320kbps mp3s.

    Yet, when I play it on speakers, I don't know why, it just doesn't translate as well. Acoustic sounds great, classical, jazz, even techno (which I never listen to lol), etc.. but sometimes, often with Rock, it's like the speakers put their feet down and say: "that is compressed crap with no dynamics so there we're playing your shit... Enjoy!" Then just highlight the fact that they've done a bad engineering job on it...

    So my question... Why do compressed music seem to sound better on headphones than speakers? I can listen thru a tune without problems on headphones (say "Stars are projectors"), yet thru speakers, it just never seems to sound right...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirgleMirt
    Then just highlight the fact that they've done a bad engineering job on it...
    I don't think it's so much bad engineering as who they're trying to appeal to. Their target market isn't hi-fidelity owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by GirgleMirt
    So my question... Why do compressed music seem to sound better on headphones than speakers? I can listen thru a tune without problems on headphones (say "Stars are projectors"), yet thru speakers, it just never seems to sound right...
    I've experienced this quite often with rock. Most of what I buy is jazz or classical. Waiting for Columbus will be my next rock CD purchase. I had it on vinal back in the day. That was an engineering masterpiece.

    David

  3. #3
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    Two reasons:

    Mp3 and similar compression largely works by cutting off higher frequencies (depending on the compression level, the cutoff is anywhere from 10kHz to 19kHz). These frequencies are often not heard as discrete sounds as much as they give acoustic 'clues' about the sense of a room, spacing, etc. This can come across as the sense of 'soundstage' which is less clear in headphones.

    Second, the Sony V6's plugged straight into your computer aren't as good as your Ascend speakers.

    That said, I can't say I've had the experience you describe comparing 320kbps VBR to the uncompressed file. Perhaps on lower bitrate items, but with a blind comparison (important point), it would have to be critical listening to particular songs on a very nice system for me to reliably tell the difference. Even then, I'm not certain if I could since I haven't tried it.

    It sounds like you're comparing very different systems though, so there are probably other variables involved than just speakers vs headphones.

  4. #4
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    i don't know enough about the technical aspects of lossy conversion to be able to say, but even with uncompressed music, i definitely agree that sometimes rock just falls flat. whoever is mastering CDs for some of these bands, well, i just wish they'd do a better job.

    it's also possible that your headphones color the sound somewhat--the ascends are really linear and revealing. other equipment may hide some of the faults of the recording by emphasizing certain frequencies.

  5. #5
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    Hmmm! I think there's been some confusion. I'm not talking about compression as in compressed files (mp3), I'm talking about dynamic range compression! VBR 320kbps is very close to lossless, I guess I couldn't tell the difference so that's probably not the issue.

    The studio V6 I'm using, as mentioned, are studio monitors, so they're relatively flat (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...6352#post46352).

    I think it has more to do with the fact that speakers present you with a 'real' soundstage, while the headphones just... Somewhat play the music 'inside your head'. The difference between them being that when listening to headphones, the compression doesn't seem to matter as much... Since you're not really hearing "things which are real", you're just hearing sounds 'inside your head'...

    But with speakers, it's like automatically you know that what is in front of you doesn't sound real... Like if the compression becomes a lot mroe apparent. I don't think it has too much to do with the speakers being more revealing than the headphones (but maybe it does...), I think it's more an issue of compressed music sounding worst on speakers than on headphones.

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    perhaps it's just that the sound engineers doing most rock music aren't skilled at mixing stereo, or the dynamic compression limits the ability to distinguish the soundstage and stereo positioning?

    i was reading the wikipedia article on headphones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphones) and it mentions that a lot of people think that stereo and headphones don't really mix. of course others say the opposite.

    so (talking out of my rear because i don't really know much about the science of all of this) maybe it's possible that dynamic compression limits the amplitude differences of sounds coming from each channel, which tends to get rid of the stereo/positioning effect on speakers, but doesn't as much on headphones b/c the left and right channels never mix. or it may have nothing to do with dynamic compression, and there are just a lot of bad sound engineers on rock records.

  7. #7
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    for those who didn't read girglemirt's link on dynamic range compression, it is basically lessening the difference between loud and soft passages of music. i could see this happening in rock music for a couple reasons.

    first possibility is the bands simply aren't writing as dynamically anymore as they used to. i don't think this would be the case with bands such as modest mouse, who i've heard are quite talented musicians (never got into them myself, so i'm going off hearsay), but there's a lot of stuff playing over and over on the radio these days that is pretty crappy, so i wouldn't be surprised.

    the second possibility is, as david commented earlier, the target audience for rock music generally aren't audioholics with hi-fi systems (although they may think their **** "surround sound" system in their car is hi-fi). the music will generally be played through headphones or in the car as they speed down the highway. which leads into my third possibility:

    with the ever growing market of digital distribution and mp3 player penetration, society at large is using headphones as their primary listening method. in order to keep the low passages loud enough to hear in noisy areas and the loud passages low enough to not blow your ears out when one suddenly arrives in a passage, more and more compression is added to keep the volume constant. obviously this is going to have a bigger effect on music like rock whose target audience is the target audience of mp3 players as well, so i guess my second and third point sort of go together.

    it'd be interesting to sit down and listen to bands who have been around for a while from their earliest album to their latest straight through and see how the recording styles change over time in regards to the level of compression used.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebh
    i was reading the wikipedia article on headphones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphones) and it mentions that a lot of people think that stereo and headphones don't really mix. of course others say the opposite.
    i'm taking a physics of music class at the moment, and while a lot of it is a joke (100 level course for kids who know nothing...), we did talk a little about how stereo sound worked in the early days which was kind of interesting. people initially used stereo by simply making a sound louder in one ear than the other, but there is a lot more to stereo imaging than volume levels (and timing, but i'm not going to talk about that). it turns out that the reflections of sound off of your ear, shoulders, face, etc actually increase or reduce certain frequencies that are heard by your ear, and depending on which way the sound is coming from, different frequencies may be affected. this is why we can tell the difference between a noise directly in front of us and one directly behind us. since everyone's body is different, these effects may be completely different for different people.

    when this idea was first proposed, they tested the theory by creating a fake human head and recorded some music with a microphone placed on either side of the fake head where the ears were positioned, and also recorded the same music with just two microphones without a fake head between them. what they discovered was that the stereo imaging sounded much more real in the sound recorded with the fake head in between the microphones than without it.

    while there are sound mixing programs available that modify frequencies based on common effects produced by this phenomenon to create stereo imaging, i'd be willing to bet there are plenty of sound engineers out there who don't use it, which is why so many people may feel that stereo and headphones don't mix well.

    sorry this post was so long...
    CMT-340SE2 Mains & Center, CBM-170SE Surrounds, Rythmik F15, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5

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