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[davef]

Hey Brad,

Dave, did you happen to compare the specs of the bulk cable to the pre-made cables? I tend to buy bulk and cut and terminate myself.

No, I have not -- but I will definitely put it on my to do list. It is 4 conductor cable, would you want the 4 pairs wired in parallel yielding 2 pairs?

[QUOTE=BradJudy]Dave, did you happen to compare the specs of the bulk cable to the pre-made cables? I tend to buy bulk and cut and terminate myself.

Canare publishes some of these numbers for their speaker cable. Example of 4S11 - http://canare.com/index.cfm?objectid...06286428706042 They don't list L, but they have R and C in there, as well as frequency response graphs.

That is very nice to see. Perhaps more cable manufacturers will adopt this, but my guess is that they won't.

i just checked out ultralink's homepage and noticed they have bi-wire pre-terminated cable. have you had any experience with that product?

I physically examined the product and it is quite nice but I feel the cost is a bit restrictive (it is expensive).

Dielectric? Are they referring to the individual coatings on each of the twisted pair wires to be the Dielectric? I mean, it IS a sort, because of the reactance between the 2, but I deal with coaxial cable all the time(and used to work with air capacitors and such in RF amplifier building), and the term Dielectric is the spacing between the 2 conductors, be it FOAM, or Air."

In general, the term dielectric refers to any non-conductive material. Its less common usage refers to the insulating material between to reactive components. As you know, speaker cable has a positive conductor and a negative conductor. These would react with each other without the presence of the insulating material, so technically, the term is correct.

Are there TWO seperate coatings/jackets OVER the twisted pairs, or are they calling the individual jackets AND the outer coating?"

There is no coating or foil over the conductors, each conductor has a jacket, the pair is then twisted and then there is an outer jacket. I believe it is a requirement for a cable to be double insulated in order to meet in-wall wiring requirements (CL3)

Dave, you said 14g in your post here, AND the announcement, but the PROMO/AD says 12g. May wanna look into that.BTW, Is it a typo, or are you meaning that you can order the pre-cut lengths of 12g, OR BUY 14g by the foot?

Everything looks about right to me. The bulk cable is 14 gauge 4 conductor (order by the foot) and the pre-terminated cable is 12 gauge of specific lengths.

Nice sumbission Brad!!

[BradJudy]

No, I have not -- but I will definitely put it on my to do list. It is 4 conductor cable, would you want the 4 pairs wired in parallel yielding 2 pairs?!

Yes, that's what I do with the star quad and I think it makes the most sense for most installations. If you've got the time, it would be interesting to see how wiring the quad properly (linking opposite wires) compares to linking adjacent wires. I'm curious if the EM field differences will make a measurable difference the the properties of the cable.

[muzz]

I guess technically it is, but it's not what I am accustomed to.

For it to be precise, the spacing needs to be the same throughout(or VERY close to)though, and I would figure that a bit hard to do through windings.... of course, it shouldn't be hard to be do between the pairs, as that is solid jacket, and they've been doing things like that for Eons (ladder line etc...).

Thx.

m

[drewface]

so... the term dielectric, in this case, is referring to the material the coats around the conductors are made of, right?

[sensibull]

I won't try to better BradJudy's bullet points (mostly 'cause the electrical science is beyond me), but here are two somewhat tongue-in-cheek alternatives for the introductory paragraph:

Slay the Monster

Speaker cable is the boogeyman of the audio world, polarizing listeners into two camps: the believers and the skeptics. Here at Ascend Acoustics, we depend on real world measurements to put some "teeth" into our claims of superior performance. We also strive for absolute neutrality in delivering the audio signal from its source to your ears. To achieve this, we have selected a speaker cable that in-house measurements show to have a significantly lower ratio of inductance/capacitance than similar-grade alternatives. No magic bullet. No mumbo jumbo. Just plain physics.

or

The Truth is Out There

Tired of the speaker cable debate devolving into an X-Files episode full of pseudo science and alien technology? The truth is much simpler: inductance and capacitance are the only factors that really matter, and fortunately both
are quantifiable. Our in-house tests of the Ultralink MX-2 High Performance speaker cable have shown it to have a significantly lower ratio than other "high-end" cables on the market, delivering a clean, clear signal that leaves interstellar transport in the hands of the entertainers.

[BradJudy]

Sensibull - I like that first paragraph of yours - good stuff. Just one small change of some wording other than "audio alchemy" since that was a name of an actual company in the audio world.

[drewface]

Well, here's my shot at re-working the features section:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Features:

• Top-rate build quality:
  
  • 12AWG high strand oxygen free copper
  • Advanced internal winding geometry
  • Double insulated with flexible, low-friction dielectric
• Extremely low capacitance, inductance, and resistance for extended frequency response*
  
  • Capacitance = 2.6uH @ 1kHz, 2.8uH @ 120Hz
  • Inductance = 1.5mF @ 1kHz and 120Hz
  • Resistance = .047Ω @ 1kHz, .038Ω @ 120Hz
• FREE carrying case included!

* measurements taken with 12ft cables
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I left out the banana plugs part because the fact the cable is pre-terminated with high quality plugs is already covered both in the current intro paragraph (which sensibull offered some nice alternatives to) as well as the listing on the accessories page. Also, i combined some of the other bullet points that seemed to go together. not sure if i combined the double insulated/dielectric stuff right, so if what i wrote doesn't make sense, someone let me know so i can fix it. i threw in the measurements dave posted, since we've all learned they are what really matter in speaker cable. also, i think FREE extras are a better marketing pull than "ultra-cool" extras...

this whole thread has been extremely interesting to me to learn about what actually makes one speaker cable better than another. it's nice to know i could argue with salespeople in stores now and actually know what the hell i'm talking about!

[davef]

Great stuff so far!!!

Sensibull, I agree with Brad, your first paragraph is wonderful!

(I should have you guys redo the entire website )

so... the term dielectric, in this case, is referring to the material the coats around the conductors are made of, right?

It is referring to the jacket or sleeve (the insulating material) around the wires.

[buzzy]

I'm sure it's been said already, but there's no question that the money would be better spent on speakers rather than cables, in terms of audible bang for the buck, for the budget constrained buyer. So the cables are really about convenience, and just the pleasure of having fine gear - from that point of view, they're reasonably priced.

"in-house measurements show to have a significantly lower ratio of inductance/capacitance than similar-grade alternatives. No magic bullet. No mumbo jumbo. Just plain physics." You're welcome to show the measurements that show this difference is audible, especially relative to spending the money instead on an upgrade to the next level of speakers. Until then, you might want to ease up on the last few sentences. And emphasize the value they're really delivering, not the pseudo scientific part. You know better than anyone that you want people to be happy about their purchase well into the future, and not realize at some point down the road that they bought them for the wrong reasons. Sell the benefits they really offer, and that won't happen.

As you say, people want cables, and hooking stuff up is a big hurdle for most people - gear sits in the boxes for ages sometimes because people don't have a day to figure out what they need and how to connect it. So it's not a matter of suggesting not selling them, just suggesting you not muddy the waters by getting behind the ultimately losing proposition with the voodoo acoustics. And staying in keeping with the listener's-interest-first philosophy.

[sensibull]

Clearly you are in the skeptic camp, buzzy

FWIW, I am too but nowhere did I say/write that the difference would be audible, just that the cables are better made than others and that can be proven.