Ascends vs X-Series

[Droht]

Not sure where to post this, but it is something I want to to say. I've been looking for front speakers for 3.1 config for a while now. I have auditioned a lot of speakers. Most of that work was simply framing up the final battle between Ascend and av123. Saving all the details I've read a thousand times on each speaker, my basic formula is this: Ascend (great sound; boring cab; price; size) = x-cs (very good sound; great cab; lower price; size is a negative)

So how do I choose. The marketing that each company does can be fairly effective. Ascend has a website in which many sections haven't been updated for years. New speakers or better cabinets may be on the drawing board (probably not) but all those things are kept very quiet until they are ready to go. David F. is fairly good about responding directly to people. Bottom line to me is that Ascend is saying "Our folks are busy building best speakers that you can buy, even in double this price range" "If you have a question we'll help you out, but beyond that we ain't doing much to sell these speakers 'cause we don't have to."

av123/Onix on the other hand sucks you right in their big family. Every detail of the companies business is seemingly on display. The owner, Mark, is ridiculolusly available to his customers, and often posts all his direct phone #s. He's at GTGs showing off speakers that are still on the drawing board. He's getting direct feedback from his customer base. He's publishing numerous designs and veneers that will soon be abailable, and extolling the sonic virtues or each.

I had clearly settled on the x-series technology a few times. When I analyze that decsion it is mostly around the excitement that company is currently generating. Seems like a bad reason to make a puchase decision. I have no idea what they will eventually be able to deliver with x-series (optimism seems to far outrun reality in these situations) and I have concerns that my meager order of 3 x-cs and one ulw-10 sub will not get the attention I prefer because everyone is exciting and tring to get something new done.

I guess this was mostly my self-psychoanalysis regarding buying speakers. If anyone has an comments please feel free. I'd say I'm 80% toward Ascends right now.

[SteveCallas]

I have observed exactly what you are talking about on that other forum. It's like bandwagon hysteria, and common sense or logic usually get pushed to back in favor of..."love"

[jsotelo]

I understand everything you just said.

I REALLY wanted to buy AV123 speakers and was about to pull the trigger a few times. I loved the "energy" in the forum, I really like the way they look and also how much less they are than Ascends. Doesn't hurt that I live in California and have to pay tax on Ascends while the AV123 are tax free.

In the end I went with Ascend thou for 2 reasons.

#1 Size. AV123 doesn't have anything that compares size wise to 3 340s in the from and two 200s in the rear. The X-CS is huge at 15.5 inches deep and there was no way my wife would be happy with the 13.5 x 8.5 x 12 X-LS as surrounds. I showed her both speakers and to my suprise picked the "ugly" Ascends over the AV123 set. She really liked how slim the 340's were over the X-CS and the HTM-200 as surrounds made her happy.

#2 Sound. From the way everyone describes them Ascends are more of my kind of speakers than the AV123. I'm all about detail and I can't wait to hear the speakers once I get them.

[Lou-the-dog]

It is easy to get caught up in all the hype over there. Kind of a carnival atmosphere and I'm sure it helps sell product. AV123 makes good products no doubt but the best recomendation is still to make your purchase decisions based on what you hear.

Randy

[drewface]

i've never heard any of the av123 products and i'm sure they are fantastic, but i know i would much rather buy from a company whose products basically sell themselves as opposed to using a bunch of marketing hype. i am not bashing the marketing/community of av123 in any way with this statement, just stating my opinion.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Ask any sales person and they will all say they prefer referrals over any other form of business. It sticks longer, it is more solid of a chance to sell, the buyers are usually happier. That being said, If Dave doesn't advertise but is constantly selling a product and is available to you when you need him within reason, the reviews are quality and consistent that should speak for itself! If someone can sell without trying to "sell" the product... that should tell you a LOT about the product and customers. Very few are ever returned so that should also speak volumes. If you are still concerned, getboth and give them a FAIR A/B test (blind if you need) and enough time to break them in and get use to them and keep the ones that are the best sounding to your ears.

You can also ask to audition the Ascends in someone's home before you buy if you need. Maybe pick up the av123's and take them there to A/B them yourself. Many options to choose but nothing beats research and hands on before you buy... that is why so many of us will never buy a car without test driving it. These speakers will last longer than two or three cars for you so do it right the first time!

Good luck!

[curtis]

I have had Ascends for just about 4 years now.....wow!

I am probably one of the VERY few that have met both Dave and Mark personally. As nice as both are, they are EXTREMELY different, and their personalities are reflected in their companies.

That said, the CBM-170 is seemingly always the target, and has been around for 7 years, with the first change coming last year.....that should say something.

edit: As much as I think the 170SE sets the standard, the advice I give is to compare. Like some, you may prefer somethingelse.

[davef]

Hi Guys,

I think Curtis says it best as he has spent time with both me and Mark. Mark and I are completely different people. I am not a marketing person, salesperson, and I don't even consider myself a businessman.

I am a quiet unassuming family guy who prefers to say out of the public eye.

I design unique audio products, this is what I am best at and this is how I enjoy spending my workday. If customers love them, great -- if they don't that is OK too.

I have no desire to sell a few thousand speakers per month; I have been there, no thank you. If I had that desire, we would have no choice but to change our marketing, in fact -- we don't market at all (no banner ads, no magazine ads -- nothing) Any "hype" is generated by consumers. We are actually a bit unique in the industry and I think that is also reflected in our products. It is not just about the quality of the parts we use, but of the amount of engineering time and experience that goes into every design.

And it should not be forgotten that I personally test each and every loudspeaker that leaves here. I can guarantee you that our quality control procedures and methodology are unmatched anywhere. It is kind of ridiculous actually but that is just me…

Bottom line to me is that Ascend is saying "Our folks are busy building best speakers that you can buy, even in double this price range" "If you have a question we'll help you out, but beyond that we ain't doing much to sell these speakers 'cause we don't have to."

There is a lot of truth in that statement...

While my technicians do assemble all of our speakers on the production line, I am not busy building them, but I am too busy testing each and every one of them We work HARD here...

Ascend / AV123 -- we are two completely different companies with entirely different approaches and that is cool... Mark and I often disagree -- but we have agreed to disagree and we both have much respect for each other, both personally and professionally.

Which loudspeakers should you purchase? The ones that you enjoy listening to the most…

Take care!

[Droht]

Thanks to David and everyone else for the responses. I really have trouble moving away from the fact that each and every speaker from Ascend is checked by David. I started my career in QA and R&D in the plastics industry and just can't help but being impressed by that approach.

[drewface]

wow. i never knew that dave personally tests every loudspeaker that gets shipped out. that is insane, and makes me that much more pleased with my decision to support Ascend by buying their speakers.