results of shootout are now posted

[audibleconnoisseur]

Hello all, AudibleConnoisseur here with a report on the Sunday speaker shootout in Dacula, GA! Along with three gentlemen and myself, we spent four hours at my place listening to a variety of speakers, eating some hotdogs and discussing music and bass! Here is the line up of speakers by pair:

Ascend Acoustics 340SE - $568
Axiom Audio M22v2 - $460
Boston Acoustics VRB - $500+?
Focal JM Labs 806V bookshelf - $800
HSU VTF-2 MK 3 sub - $469+sh
Sapphire 1500 surrounds - $1000 bought for $349
Focal JM Labs 826V floor standing - $2100

Many of these only got a few minutes b/c we were more interested in the first four and the sub. The Equipment used to test the speakers was a Samsung SACD/DVD/CD player, Technics 5-disc changer and a Denon AVR-1905 80W/ch receiver. The LP was approx 13’ back from the speakers and the speakers were approximately 6’ apart. The test was done in 2.1 stereo sound with treble and bass at +/-0. The speaker wire was 14 gauge, in-wall certified shielded speaker wire. Most tests were done at the –20 to –5Db levels as were shown on the 1905. The sub was set to just under 9 o’clock on the volume dial and 80Hz crossover setting within the 1905. The LP was from corner to corner. For these tests, the guys wanted the grills off, so we did everything with the grills off (Had I thought about it, I would have put the grills back on as I won't take them off while they are in our system for several reasons). Note that with the grills on the sound could be smoother for each speaker or even seem slightly less forward.

The first test was the VRB’s v/s 806V’s. While I was not as privy to this test, I did hear much of the testing from afar. I let the VRB owner test first. He mentioned that he did like the sound of the 806’s but didn’t like them enough to warrant the cost difference. I agree, as did the Ascend owner.

Last test was the VRB’s v/s the Ascends. This proved to be the closest case of two similar sounding speakers. The presentation was similar and according to the others the 340’s were the winner by a smaller margin than the VRB’s v/s 340’s, I was the only one to tell a larger difference in the two (I have hearing above and below the regular hearing spectrum as has been tested when I was younger and as recent as three years ago). I noticed a few things different. First the SEAS tweeter was smoother at the top end and seemed a little less fatiguing than the VRB’s although by a slight margin during the short playing time. The VRB’s sounded more boxy and confined by about 15% as the 340’s opened up during the entire session and never sounded boxy. It was clear that the 340’s were made solid and presented well no matter where they were. Oh, there was only about 8”-10” of clearance to the back wall for each speaker. The VRB’s are a well built speaker that will win no award for looks, neither will 340’s. Both are capable of producing very loud music very clearly but the 340’s sing better and when pushed, so no signs of fatigue where the VRB’s seem that had they been given about 10 more Db’s (this would have been VERY loud), they might begin to show sibilance and or become shrill. They also have a nice sized woofer that is capable of producing decent bass if there is no sub to be had - one would be suggested for all of these though. The 340’s dropped lower on paper and held their own quite well but we didn’t push it to find out how well they did.

Ok, to the main event and why we were here… 340SE v/s M22v2. For the most testing these two were pitted against each other and it was FUN! We took them to +/- 0 at the highest point and didn’t care to push past this just in case as this level with the Denon is suppose to be reference level. I am not an A/V pro but I assume this to be true. The 340’s are capable of 220W rms and 400W max! That is some serious power they can hold with pristine sound and doubtful you are going to blow them unless you are doing something stupid or you have a very low powered / very, very high powered receiver. These 340’s can hold their own at any level you are capable of handling acoustically. The M22v2’s are rated at 200W max amp and I am not sure what rms or power they can handle but I don’t believe it is as high as the 340’s. Strange thing though is the 340’s are rated 92dB and the M22v2’s were 93dB so one would think the M’s would play slightly louder with the same gain and the 340’s would play slightly lower. Not the case. We found that the M’s took a touch more volume to play at the same perceived sound level as the 340’s!? After some thought and a bit of adjustment, the 340’s were dropped to –4 treble (of –12) and the sound of the two were much closer as we think the forward presentation of the 340’s and the SEAS tweeter were just smoother and easier to hear. Also we could adjust the M’s to +4 and get similar presentation but this would produce a more harsh tinny sound from the M’s. B/C of this we found that the M’s were more reserved at all volume levels. Not so much a good reserved, but slightly laid back or maybe even a bit muddy with certain music, such as rock music. Most music, the M’s are quality and present well with smooth midrange and good sound. The M’s are also not bad with the high end presentation but I can see how they would be perceived as harsh or fatiguing over a long time, especially at +4 to match the smoothness and treble capability of the 340’s. It was b/c of this that I used -4 on the 340's over +4 on the M's. However, we usually used the +/-0 settings to compare apples to apples!

The 340’s present well with all types of music, including rock. They really stood out in this category and for me this was good. I enjoy all types of music but currently I listen to a lot of alternative rock and other types that you would find on a regular radio dial. They also image well and present a quality soundstage even when we had them 3’ too close for our distance back (should be spkr dist apart = .73 x LP distance). The 340’s were the standout to me as far as presentation, clarity, high end, smoothness, spot on midrange and ability to offer quick and refined bass with ANY music track or movie track we threw at it. The M’s stood out with better bass for rap they also had REALLY nice midrange. With both male and female voices, both performed well. We listened to some classical, jazz, rock, acoustic, Cassandra Wilson (great fun cd with a lot of soft acoustical performances and fun sound effects), Sarah McLachlan, Eagles, all the way to disturbed and Godsmack! Both reproduced quality music and we enjoyed our session with the variety of genre. When we were testing the female voices, I was noticing some things I hadn’t heard before or heard better with these speakers, such as the separation of Sarah’s lips when she sings (which personally takes me to the seat next to her and is a bit of a turn on if you are in to her. I have her at the top of my musicians for female vocals at this time b/c of her passion and the way she is able to pass that passion to the listener and make you feel the song in your soul), her quite breaths b/t lyrics, etc. There was another singer that eludes me at the moment (female) that had a really nice voice and during her session that was live and on DVD, I heard a few things that I didn’t from the M’s (or had to re-listen and really focus to hear them) while she was on. Many background sounds such as instruments moving, people talking, coughs and other artifacts that make live sessions so neat to hear and bring you to the stage with them - I really appreciated and enjoyed this. I was the only one that heard them the first time and consecutive times before I turned up the volume to a higher level and pointed them out to the others. The 340’s produced original content with no deviation in my opinion. The M’s did well but the sound seemed a bit more masked and these little artifacts that make that quality track were hidden at the same volume levels or muffled and that was a red flag for me. It was b/c of this that I was really sold on the Ascends. The 340’s REALLY DO project the original and accurate recordings so I can see how a bad recording will stand out. I didn’t hear any bad ones that day but that particular song (if nothing else) really sold me. This coupled with the Ascends presence and forwardness during rock playback as well as spot on midrange and no-nonsense reproduction is what sealed the purchase decision for me.

I can’t say that I personally found anything I didn’t like about the Ascends when they were in my home… except that they weren’t mine! Even the M’s owner said that he preferred the Ascends over his own M’s in the rock area and I think he also appreciated the quality of all other music as well... I hope there are no lingering afterthoughts of his decision with the M22 & m60’s he owns… they are damn nice speakers! He is still pleased with his M’s but I feel that had he been given another chance, he would have strongly considered the Ascends in his testing. Now to be fair, he has the M60’s as well and I have heard them last year when I went to his home to audition the Axiom line… they are very nice and range and image well when I last heard them. They will stomp the 340’s on bass extension and when he played the Pink Flyod cd for me… wow! I digress… I was near sold on them at the time but had to wait to purchase anything. From what I am being told, the M22v2 play everything the same as the M60’s w/o the bass extension and there is a ‘little’ lower and fuller midrange that you might give up b/c of the size of the two. However, when paired with a sub and the sub taking 80Hz and lower, the sound of them is near identical (this from an Axiom Audio Advisor). That being taken into account, I had to choose the 340’s w/sub. Now I can get the full range + the movie and depth LFE’s that I have been yearning for all these years!

[audibleconnoisseur]

At our session, the M22 owner brought the Pink Floyd cd and we played the cut with all the clocks at the beginning and with the 340’s, I could swear that there were a dozen in my room up high on the walls, behind me, in front and all were actually in the room, the imaging was that good! They all sounded accurate and not like ‘fake’ acoustically reproduced clocks. The M’s did well here also and should be proud but again their presentation is further back and at times I could tell that the speakers were doing the talking but not during this test.

When using the sub, they both got better and better. What the HSU can do paired with a quality bookshelf is incredible. The M’s and 340’s were born to run with the HSU and they did so at great pace. The JM Labs didn’t match well with the HSU for some reason and we could not figure why but it didn’t matter b/c they also didn’t match with our ears, so there you have it! The HSU is an awesome piece of audible equipment that will amaze many a people that don’t know what they can get for under $475+sh! I know that I have heard many a sub in that range and NONE come near the power, excursion, output and full depth the VTF-2 MK 3 does. Rated at 250W and 25Hz max output and 18Hz max extension is a conservative rating b/c I/we have personally felt a 16Hz tone from the little monster! I shouldn’t say little b/c it is a small and heavy (78lbs) end table that looks like a black box with a woofer installed! The build quality of the HSU is quite impressive and it is solid to the core. If you don’t believe me, just put in any LFE heavy movies and see for yourself. The dial on the back never really needs to go above the ¼ or 9-10o’clock mark so I am not sure why it is even on there but anything above this is overkill unless you really like the bass low and loud when the music is really low. I have yet to bottom out this sub but I feel I am giving it the old college try! With the disk the Dr (Dr. HSU – designer and builder of the HSU subs) gives you, you can actually bottom out the first thing you hear so start with it low! The first track is a great recording of a nice classical piece with a 32” pipe organ, whose sound output is similar to that of a military helicopter flying over your home. The music is pretty but the bass extension will literally shake your house and just an FYI, dogs and spouses don’t like it either! Disk also has some other songs on it and starting track 9, will drop a continued 16Hz tone and then change to a 20Hz, 22.5Hz, etc up to 200Hz+, then go backwards from 200+ back down to 16 in a continuous sonic drop. This will let you know what you need to tighten up in your home. Please consult a plumber before you attempt to tighten down the pipes in your walls! Yes, it will shake them too! Can’t find the loose change b/t the seat cushions? The HSU will turn your couch into a coin machine gone awry, and spit out the change you will need for your morning coffee or whatever other vice you choose. I am not saying the HSU is capable of shaking the ground outside of your home… but it does! When your neighbor tells you they can feel it at about 50’ b/t homes, “you do the math!”

We did not test the SPL of the sub but know that it is loud and goes deep like three wide receivers wanting to win the Super Bowl with 10 seconds left and down by five! The sub also has a few switches/knobs for you to play with: on/off/auto on, 0 & 180 phase, 18Hz max extension/25Hz max output (with foam plug) and the crossover in/out. The two knobs are gain/volume and crossover level (40-more than you need it for). It is also capable of many speaker inputs in case you need them although I have not used them, nor will unless something drastic changes in our audible lives . Quality plug and removable cord and volt switch, as well as the fuse are easy to see and read and use. Four hard plastic spikes that screw in to the bottom of the unit to keep the woofers excursion from hitting the floor and four firm rubber feet stands are also provided if your sub starts to walk on its own while on a wooden, marble or linoleum floor. It is suggested that you put it on carpet or put a throw or carpet under it if you can for best sound. Everything on this sub is quality and you will be impressed with its build. It’s girth is harder to hide as this baby needs about 16” x 25” (400in.sq.) floor space to breath properly (as 4-5” are suggested on the port side and at least 1” from the sides to the wall). Don’t worry, you will be happy you made room for it! You might have a harder time in the WAF area, but if she gives you grief, stick her head near it and play a quality bass track and it will rattle her brain so much she will forget whey she is arguing in the first place! (No, I do not condone or agree with spousal abuse – you are simply letting her feel the sub’s ability!) It is a plug-n-play system so even the instructionally challenged can handle setup and operation. I had it opened and installed in under ten minutes, that includes removing it from the box, simple quick placement and hooking up the wires. The knobs and switches came set already to 80Hz and 9o’clock gain (not sure if that was a fluke or not).

All in all it was a good time. The boys came over, I grilled out and we ate, talked shop and got to the testing. I do not have a full list of the cd’s used but we did test many of them such as: Eagles, Cassandra Wilson, Sarah McLachlan, Disturbed, Stone Sour, Metallica, U-571, Star Wars TPM, Matrix, HSU test CD, and many others consisting of acoustical and male/female vocals. Nice DVD of one woman whom eludes me that was one of my biggest reasons to pick up the Ascends acoustically and reproduction wise. Maybe one of the other gentlemen will pipe in with her name… ah yes, Diana Krall… that was her! It was this DVD of a live acoustical performance where she was on the piano that I heard the background sounds of moving musical instruments and persons talking that I did NOT hear in the M22v2’s that really pushed me much further to the 340’s. I didn’t need to hear any more after that A/B test!

Now people, don’t get me wrong… the M’s are very nice and great quality with solid construction and they look better than the 340’s with grill on or off, I just believe that the 340’s were superior in most every aspect FOR MY PERSONAL LISTENING DESIRES. When it came to the vocals of men and women, both were spot on in my opinion and both are really good quality, especially for the money, this is where I might give a slight edge to the M’s, when there were deeper male vocals. I told them both I wish I could mash the two together and that would be pretty sweet! The M’s win on looks and WAF but someone once said “You should not be as worried with the look of your speakers, as you are with how they sound!” It is my opinion that speakers should be noticed when people enter your home and after that, they should disappear and all the guests and yourself should ‘see’ is how good they make you feel when they are playing and appreciate the artist as they are attempting to be appreciated. You are suppose to get involved with music to appreciate it and if you know where the sound is coming from, you can’t do that as well with your eyes open, or closed!

The 340’s were my pick if you couldn’t tell, the Boston’s were really nice and I would need to A/B them with the Axiom’s to have a permanent opinion, but the did seem the nearest acoustically to the 340’s from the blind test and the M’s were right in there the whole way, just with a more laid back sound and at times the word muddy might be used when considering FINE detail that I can hear and many others may not. Great fun, great speakers, great shootout and the point was for me to make a decision. As such, I have placed my order for 340SE mains, 340SE center, & 3 HTM200 surrounds. They should be here next Friday and I am truly counting the days until then. I have returned the $3K worth of JM Labs and am keeping the Sapphire 1500’s for a couple more weeks to pull surround duty until I break in the Ascends and then I am going to set up a system for my buddy using them or sell them or return them as well.

Thanks for your time and I know this is long but it was my first one. No specific measurements b/c I don’t have the graphs or equipment, just good old fashioned listening and opinions. Take them as you will and use them how you wish. It was fun and thanks to the three gentlemen that helped out with your speakers. Best of luck to you all and I will report again in a few weeks when I have mine broken in. I will also be testing a few receivers as well if Leon55 can return to help me so we have the same speakers and we can give more input to them at such time: Pioneer VSX-81TXV, Denon AVR-1905, Denon AVR-2807, Possibly a Harman Kardon 645.

Ciao for now ~