Modded Ascends?

[GirgleMirt]

oh! If you want real 'mod' that works, room treatment. The room makes a HUGE difference. Also placement plays a key role... And placement is free!

[Lou-the-dog]

Why? Most other "audiophile grade" speakers have forums which discuss possible mods.

Raja

Actually your question is a valid one. I just had never considered that there may be a home-mod that would make much difference in sound quality. The most likely tweek to Ascends might be a veneered cabinet like Brad's beautiful 170's.

Randy

[rajacat]

You're right that any comment that might be construed to slight Ascend's in any way might start a war and some sarcastic posts. However, I was surfing thought the Magnaplaner forum and there is a quite lively discussion on mods and such other tweaks like improving the stands, placement and improving bass response with the addition of a subwoofer. Sometimes upgrading the internal wiring or some other internal tweak might improve the SQ noticeably. I always thought that tweaking your system was part of the fun. The better your rig is, the more likely it is to actually hear improvements in SQ with some minor tweak. I was lucky enough to come across a deal on some high end interconnects and speaker cable on a forum and they really made a substantial improvement in the low and middle end on my Ascend 340se's. The difference was not subtle and anybody would have noticed. It was the best $125 I've spent but I'm sure that if you bought those cables retail they would have cost $500+.

Raja

[GirgleMirt]

You're right that any comment that might be construed to slight Ascend's in any way might start a war and some sarcastic posts.

I hope you're not referring to me because I don't even own Ascends (yet)

I was lucky enough to come across a deal on some high end interconnects and speaker cable on a forum and they really made a substantial improvement in the low and middle end on my Ascend 340se's

Howcome? Were you using defective RCA cables before? Or were you using speaker cable with a too small gauge for their length? Did you make a double blind test or at least a blind test to confirm your impressions?

Sometimes upgrading the internal wiring or some other internal tweak might improve the SQ noticeably

In some instances if the manufacturer is cheaping out and using inadequate parts, replacing that part might make a difference, but if one part is functionning properly, you'll probably endup with no or negligible differences by replacing it with another...

The better your rig is, the more likely it is to actually hear improvements in SQ with some minor tweak.

Its the opposite, the better your rig is, the less you should have to mod and tweak it Ex: Great speakers have less potential gain by modding than crap speakers.


The problem in audio is that there's two school of thoughts. There's the realistic and then there's the esoteric... Example, interconects. 100$ "interconnect" vs 2$ radio shack RCA cable. The realistics say that if you measure two RCA cables and they measure the same, they are the same so they will sound the same. The esoteric group instead listens to them for differences and then say (think) that they can hear differences between them. The realistics then say that its the placebo effect because they ARE the same, while the esoterics say they really can hear differences.

So which one is right? Without a blind test, sadly, the esoteric will stay esoterics, and continue to hear differences where there are none. If you look around the web, you can find countless ridiculous tweaks... shakti stone... magic crystals... 100$ dongles to lift speaker wire off the ground... sparkly stickers to put on cds... bullet shaped alluminum slugs to put on top of speakers to improve sound... fancy speaker cables etc.. etc.. There's really no shortage of them... They all have their believers, who sadly never DBT'd them and really think they make a difference...

One of the appeal to me about Ascend is that they really sound like a no BS company

To quote the 340's specs:

The heart of our 340 main is its advanced bi-wireable crossover, featuring only the finest crossover materials including polyester-film bypass capacitors, air-core inductors and gold plated binding posts.

Like I said, I really don't think its worth the bother to try to mod the crossover... But hey you never know, maybe David could shine in and give us a list of possible improvements, but my guess, they wouldn't be cost/performance effective, and wouldn't yield any real performance improvement... If they would, I'm pretty sure they would have already been included in the speakers...

[edit]Oh, btw, interesting read about speaker wire: Check out the part about "Gordon Gow's Speaker Wire Listening Test"

Well actually I don't wanna start the whole RCA cable/speaker wire debate... But my point is that Ascend strikes me as a no BS company which really tries its best to offer the best product they can they for the price. (But maybe its just markerting, I'll have to wait until I hear them ) As such, and after looking at reviews/measurements/etc, I seriously doubt you could improve their speaker performance by messing with the crossover or by replacing some of their components... Using silver wiring? Exotic resistances? Meh... Be glad they don't advertise they use such things and charge 50% more for the speakers!

[BradJudy]

Well actually I don't wanna start the whole RCA cable/speaker wire debate

Then why did you? Half of your post was giving Raja a hard time about liking the cables he bought.

[S_rangeBrew]

Me modding my Ascends would be like me modding a Formula 1 car. Probably not a good thing.

However me modding my turbocharged 4cyl has reaped great rewards... I've gone from 200 hp to over 300hp. That's because it was hobbled from the start... like white van speakers.

Ascends are not white van speakers, they have good stuff in them already.

I'm strongly of the opinion that once you get beyond the Ascend price range, you are dabbling in "percieved" value added. Your ears are not going to notice a big difference. Your wallet will.

Like another poster said, spending your "modding" time on getting room treatments, speaker placement and EQ settings right is gonna make a much bigger difference. Spend the time on that.

[rajacat]

Girgle..... Using your logic that expensive and esoteric parts don't matter then it follows that David F. should have installed the very cheapest wiring and other electronic parts in his speakers to save money because the parts don't matter anyway. Why go for the gold plated binding posts when you could do just as well with the least expensive spring loaded plain steel wire clips?

I imagine you will be always stuck in middle fidelity because of your closed mind and/or substandard hearing. You tell me that the "placebo effect" is responsible any improvement I perceived when I replaced my interconnects and speaker cable with high end cables that I bought for bargain. How in the **** do you know? You are making assumption with incomplete facts. My former cables consisted of moderately priced cable that can be purchased at Radio Shack but definitely good enough for middle fidelity. BTW what is the makeup of your rig? ****?

I do agree that acoustical improvements are perhaps the most cost effective way to improve SQ.

I started this thread with an innocent inquiry that on many other speaker forums would seem entirely appropriate. I'm surprised that you are an Ascend "fanboy" when you don't even own a pair.

Raja

[Jonnyozero3]

easy fellas...

[rajacat]

easy fellas...

Sorry to shake up the tree house. I guess that there are other less controversial topics like comparing one receiver to another. On the other hand don't all amps and receivers sound the same?

Raja

[S_rangeBrew]

Girgle..... Using your logic that expensive and esoteric parts don't matter then it follows that David F. should have installed the very cheapest wiring and other electronic parts in his speakers to save money because the parts don't matter anyway.

I don't think he was saying that, he was saying there is a point of diminishing returns. After a certain point, the improvements are small. At what point that is.... well, that's up to your ears to decide.

Why go for the gold plated binding posts when you could do just as well with the least expensive spring loaded plain steel wire clips?

I can answer this one... corrosion resistance. Plain copper actually has better conductivity, but it tends to turn green when exposed to air. Not pretty. A thin coat of gold looks good, doesn't corrode, and does a decent job of condutivity compared to other options.

I imagine you will be always stuck in middle fidelity because of your closed mind and/or substandard hearing. You tell me that the "placebo effect" is responsible any improvement I perceived when I replaced my interconnects and speaker cable with high end cables that I bought for bargain. How in the **** do you know? You are making assumption with incomplete facts. My former cables consisted of moderately priced cable that can be purchased at Radio Shack but definitely good enough for middle fidelity. BTW what is the makeup of your rig? ****?

I do agree that acoustical improvements are perhaps the most cost effective way to improve SQ.

I started this thread with an innocent inquiry that on many other speaker forums would seem entirely appropriate. I'm surprised that you are an Ascend "fanboy" when you don't even own a pair.

Raja

He was just stating a opinion that many of us agree with. Hi-fi cables are snake oil. Simple as that. Don't take it personally. Let's not start with the personal insults. Just because someone has a different opinion, we shouldn't be mean about it.

BTW, I think the original post was appropriate, and the follow ups have been generally appropriate, but need to be worded a little less harshly.