Anyone do a comparison of the XR-57 with analog receiver?

[Eddie]

As for SQ, the 1014 is an Elite model with a different badge.

Yes, some people on AVS took the 1014 apart and found it to be visually identical to the entry level Pioneer Elite (40-something model number) but far from the same league as the middle and upper level PE receivers that I was referring to.

Not that it really matters, if you want real power, you get a pro-amp.

Depends on the speakers. I have ABed the Panny and some NAD separates that definitely have more power on my 340 Classics, and the Panny was the hands down winner---much less distortion at high volumes. I tend to doubt that a high-sensitivity 8 ohm speaker like Ascends would really show a huge difference with 400wpc behind them.

Funny, I'm having a hard time finding decently-priced digital pro-amps. Maybe you can help me with that?

In a couple of years, maybe.

Actually, when it comes to amplifiers, THX Certified means something. It means the amp can actually put out the power numbers it lists. Many non-THX amps can't hack it. As a matter of fact, it was only recently that some digital amps were capable of passing the THX tests, and those were some quite high priced units. That's not to say there aren't a lot of amps out there that have the ability but just aren't THX certified, but the THX stamp on an amp *does* mean something. If you can't see that.... there really isn't much hope.

Puh-leez! My Logitech Z-2200 computer speakers have that stupid "THX Certified" logo that probably cost Logitech half the retail price, and they still sound like garbage compared to real speakers.

And your Pioneer 1014 still has that fuzzy, music-played-out-of-a-bucket sound quality typical of most analog AVRs that list under $600.

As for putting out claimed RMS numbers, Sound and Vision bench tested the Panasonic sa-xr70 (extremely similar internals to the xr55/57) and found that it does pretty much what it claims:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...&page_number=1

[GirgleMirt]

I heard it costs mega-bucks to certify something THX, which is pretty much the reason a lot of companies don't go thru the bother. So sure, being THX certified means that the product met their requirements (which can be somewhat vaguely described here: http://www.thx.com/mod/products/performance.html) but it doesn't necessarily mean that its 'better' than another component which isn't. Its pretty much $ and marketing. So its not because "THX certified" is not on a product that the product automatically does not meet the specifications... But it does give an indication of minimum quality..

Some products wouldn't pass certification, doesnt' mean they're not fit for HT or anything... Ex: speakers, "Stray Magnetic Flux", I'm guessing unshielded speakers wouldn't get the passing grade....

[S_rangeBrew]

Puh-leez! My Logitech Z-2200 computer speakers have that stupid "THX Certified" logo that probably cost Logitech half the retail price, and they still sound like garbage compared to real speakers.

Well, there are different levels of THX certification. I agree they have too many levels. The fact they would make a category for cheezy PC speakers cheapens the THX brand image, IMHO. What's next, THX clock radios?

Anyway, in reality, it just cheapens their *image*. The fact remains that THX certification of movie systems is still very good. The Ultra and Select certs are something to look for, depending on your room size. I use the 1014tx in a small 13'x16'x8' room, with 7 HTM-200s and a subwoofer, and let me tell you, the THX demo at reference level, at the start of the Star Wars DVDs is better than any theater I've been in.

As for quality of the sound when it comes to digital vs. analog amps... well, that's for the most part subjective, so I won't get into that. If you think low-end Pioneers sound like ass, that's your call. I guess I'm from the "power is power" camp. As long as the source is good, and the amps aren't not total junk, the only thing I've been able to notice is which amp is more powerful. I found this particularly obvious when trying to drive some nice component car stereo speakers. The difference was astounding when I went to a beefy amp. It made me a convert to high power amps.

Anyway, sorry about the tangent....

Here is a good article on THX certification: (it has some good details, and made me respect THX a bit more) http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-1.html

After reading that, I think you may agree, some THX certification is good. At least they are making an effort.

[Eddie]

Here is a good article on THX certification: (it has some good details, and made me respect THX a bit more) http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-1.html

After reading that, I think you may agree, some THX certification is good. At least they are making an effort.

Nice article, sounds great in theory. Here are my doubts though:

Since it costs manufacturers quite a chunk of cash to get their products tested and certified, how do we know that the actual certification process is really as rigorous as claimed?

How do we know that the THX folks aren't for sale? I doubt they'd be stupid enough to grant THX-C to an obviously *awful* product, but for a mediocre mainstream product that in all likelihood will never be pushed to its THX-claimed limits?

Are there any known models and makes that have applied for THX-C and been *rejected?* I mean, based on what I remember of the Pio 1014 that I heard, I would frankly be *scared* to hear a receiver that THX folks actually gave the thumbs down to.

Also, there is way too much great gear out there that does *not* have THX-C to begin with.

I guess I'd put a lot more stock into this whole THX business if instead of a private money-making company it was a federal agency with a mandate to evaluate all the audio gear that comes on the market, kind of like the FDA does with medicines.

[cyberbri]

I personally wouldn't go with Panasonic, just because I don't like the remotes. My father has one in his old system, and it was a pain to try and do anything with the remote and the receiver itself. the HK remote isn't perfect, but it's got everything I need to adjust any settings.

BTW, the HK 330 (55x7 or 65x2 at 8 ohms) puts out about the same power as that Panasonic xr70 (100x6 at 6 ohms), according to that magazine's tests.

[S_rangeBrew]

Are there any known models and makes that have applied for THX-C and been *rejected?*

I can't find the link, but about a year ago, a THX engineer reported that pretty much all the digital amps they had tested had failed. Just two had passed, and they were some expensive ones. That was a year ago, and I have no idea what level of cert. they were talking about, or how they failed. I really am not putting much stock in it.

[Eddie]

I can't find the link, but about a year ago, a THX engineer reported that pretty much all the digital amps they had tested had failed. Just two had passed, and they were some expensive ones. That was a year ago, and I have no idea what level of cert. they were talking about, or how they failed. I really am not putting much stock in it.

yeah that doesn't make much sense if, according to the link you posted, the way that THX Cert works is that a manufacturer applies for it, is given a technical blueprint of what is required to pass, THEN designs/builds and sends in a prototype to THX for testing. It certainly doesn't look like THX does any uninvited testing independently.