Squeezebox sound quality vs CD, and Panny XR55 info

[shane55]

Aside from speakers, DAC's are the most important part of the digital audio chain. Never underestimate their effect on the sound... it's HUGE!

shane

[Quinn]

No, I was using the analog connections to a NAD c372 in the shop. At home I also use analog connections to my Panny 55 right now; at the time of the Marantz vs. Sony ES test I was using NAD separates also with analog connections.

I didn't think to lend you the digital interconnect with the 563.

[Eddie]

I didn't think to lend you the digital interconnect with the 563.

Not sure the NAD c372 in the shop would even have a digital connection. My NAD separates certainly don't.

[curtis]

Not sure the NAD c372 in the shop would even have a digital connection. My NAD separates certainly don't.

It doesn't. Great integrated amp though....would be on my possibles list if I were to set-up a two-channel system.

[Grayson73]

I am still blown away by TV and movie performance, but am not too impressed so far with CD music. It doesn't sound as full as I'd like even though it is very detailed. Seems like I'm missing good midrange/upper bass and highs are too bright.

I was testing with the Kelly Clarkson Breakaway CD and Clay Aiken's CD.

I have 340SEs across the front with SVS 25-31CS sub, Panasonic SA-XR50 (100hz crossover), and Sony DVP-NS75H.

Is the problem with:
1. The CD capabilities of the DVP-NS75H
2. The 100hz crossover and/or the Panasonic SA-XR50
3. CD quality of the CDs I tested
4. Something else

I tried stereo with sub, stereo full range without sub, and DTS Neo:6. Adjusting the bass helped a little bit, but I can only do that in stereo mode.

I think I'll eventually try the SA-XR57 to see if the combination of dual amping, 80hz crossover, and upgraded electronics (I assume) improve the sound quality.

Am I expecting too much out of the speakers?

[shane55]

Grayson.
How are you feeding your receiver?
Analog or digital feeds (coax or Toslink) out of the DVD player?

shane

[Grayson73]

Grayson.
How are you feeding your receiver?
Analog or digital feeds (coax or Toslink) out of the DVD player?

shane

Digital coax

[rajacat]

Grayson,

I don't think the problem is with the Ascends but with the Panny. I had the XR55 and found it to be harsh and bright in the upper frequencies and lacking in impact in the lower regions. However, my XR55 did have nice imaging, was very quite and seemed to cast a large sound stage. The digital sheen, for me, was the last straw and I sold it and I am now looking for a new amp. Perhaps a tube preamp would take the hard edges off the Panny. Digital amps are still in their infancy and I think that, currently, there are better options in analogue receivers such as the Outlaw that may cost more but in the long run will provide you with more satisfaction. I am going the separates route and have started with the purchase of a tube preamp and am looking for a good traditional power amp. For home theater you are probably best going with a quality traditional AVR.

Raja

[cyberbri]

I am still blown away by TV and movie performance, but am not too impressed so far with CD music. It doesn't sound as full as I'd like even though it is very detailed. Seems like I'm missing good midrange/upper bass and highs are too bright.

I was testing with the Kelly Clarkson Breakaway CD and Clay Aiken's CD.

I have 340SEs across the front with SVS 25-31CS sub, Panasonic SA-XR50 (100hz crossover), and Sony DVP-NS75H.

Is the problem with:
1. The CD capabilities of the DVP-NS75H
2. The 100hz crossover and/or the Panasonic SA-XR50
3. CD quality of the CDs I tested
4. Something else

I tried stereo with sub, stereo full range without sub, and DTS Neo:6. Adjusting the bass helped a little bit, but I can only do that in stereo mode.

I think I'll eventually try the SA-XR57 to see if the combination of dual amping, 80hz crossover, and upgraded electronics (I assume) improve the sound quality.

Am I expecting too much out of the speakers?

It could be that you need to get used to the more accurate sound of the Ascends...

But...

Concentrate on 2-channel, either with or without the sub, first. Your room and placement within the room will determine how the "sound" sounds by the team it bounces around in your room and reaches your ears.

Experiment with spacing from walls, distance between the speakers, amount of toe-in (straight at listening position, straight forward, or in-between), etc. Tweaking placement and positioning can make a WORLD of difference.

When setting up my 340SE mains the other night, I found that angling them a bit back towards straight back, away from straight at the LP (now they are aimed at a few feet ), sounded much better and improved the width of the soundstage.


Integrating them with the sub is another job that can take a little work but is well worth it.

Basically, my regimen, using Avia and an SPL meter, goes something like this:

1) Experiment with sub placement, using Avia's LFE Sweep to test sub response only. Move sub around until I find the flattest response (least amount of variation in volume as frequency changes). Even a movement of 3-6" can make a huge difference, both with regards to sub placement and mic placement/listening position.

2) Level-match with mains using per-channel sub tones on Avia (the flatter the sub's frequency response is, the easier it is to set the level because it doesn't jump around as much)

3) Tweak crossover setting and phase for left and right channels. Start with 0-degree phase and 80Hz crossover, run frequency sweep for left/right channel, note amount of variation (dips around crossover point and below). Switch phase setting on sub, run sweep again. Note which gives best response. Repeat for other speaker. If response is off in crossover point range, try another point (ie., 70, 90, or 100Hz) and re-do tests.

4) Verify level-match with new settings.

5) Repeat process from sub placement if results not satisfactory.

A $3K sub in an acoustically-bad spot in a room can sound boomy and horrible, while a $300 sub in a good spot in the same room can sound much smoother and more musical. Especially with bass, room acoustics and placement play a much more significant role in how a sub sounds, much more so than tiny (or even big) variations in quality between two subs.

If no matter what, you can't get satisfactory bass response (fairly flat FR), then it's time to look into some room treatments (bass traps), and or PEQ, like the $100 BFD (Behringer(sp?) Feedback Destroyer), to flatten out the response.

[shane55]

Digital coax

Well there you have it...
You have just eliminated the possibility that it is inferior DAC's in the CD player.

It still may be the receiver contributing to the overall quality you are experiencing, but that should be minimal. I think Brad and jermy are right-on about it being just the difference between what you are used to and the clear neutrality of the Ascends.

In other threads this has been brought up and discussed to death, but a 'neutral' speaker is not what most people are used to listening to. There is inherent coloration in most speakers, whether it be lower-mids to give them 'warmth' or upper-mids to accentuate vocals. Ascends seem to be free of most of it. It is a very good thing, but might take a bit to get used to.

Also, for serious listening tests try sources that are not produced for low-end playback systems. These types of pop releases are EQ’d with inexpensive consumer stereos or iPods in mind. Play some of your CD’s of well-recorded and well-produced acoustic and/or classical to see how well these speakers produce good sound.

GI-GO (garbage in – garbage out).

At some point yes, a better receiver with adjustable x-over points will be important to get the most out of the Ascends.

Cheers and good luck.

shane