Help: Ascend really that good? / Amp

[scoobydufus]

Hi,
I've got a couple questions that I hope someone can help. I'm looking for new front speakers (currently just using little Advent towers from many years ago). I'm looking for 5.1 setup. I've got a Hsu VTF-3HO on pre-order for the sub. I've been really considering the Paradigm Studio series fronts (probably studio 60 for fronts), center, surrounds, but the price is above $2500 for the Studio series setup. My question is can the Ascends 340SE front and center and 170SE surrounds (for around $1200) really be that close to Paradigm in overall sound quality? I know it's subjective. I'm just wondering if the much lower cost of Ascends is why people talk so highly of them. I believe Ascends could be excellent speakers, but are they really in the same league as Paradigm? I'm trying to keep my investment into audio down, but if it means giving up significant capabilities (or at least noticeable), then I'd be willing to pay more.

Second question. I just bought the Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV receiver thinking that the 130 Watt amplifier (and Pioneer's reputation as having good amplifiers for a built in receiver) would be enough. How significant would it really be to add, say an Adcom, dedicated amp to the system?...at least compared to what I'm getting out of the Pioneer Elite receiver's amp. Also, do you think the Ascends might be more sensitive to better vs worse amplifiers? It seems as though some people are claiming significant improvements with upgraded higher end amplifiers on their Ascends. Of course, I realize better amps will help ANY speaker sound better, but just wondering if Ascends are particularly responsive to better amps.

I know these questions seem subjective (which they are), but I'm kinda hoping to get a feel for what most people really believe to be true. I might order the Ascends to at least try them out, but I'm also hoping to get a better feel by asking these questions before deciding if it's really worth it.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice!

[---k---]

There is an easy way for you to decide. Most Paradigm dealers are pretty cool, and will let you take a demo pair of their speakers home for a day to a week to demo them. Order a pair of Ascends and then ask your Paradigm dealer for a in-home demo and do the comparision.

If you're in Chicagoland, Music in Motion in Crestwood will allow you to in-home demo any of their speakers for a week. They carry Paradigm, Dyn Audio, and JM Labs. Good people, but the home audio thing is sort of secondary to their car audio business.

Anyway, I took home a pair of Studio 40s and Dyn Audio 42 from them and compared them to the Ascend 340SE. In terms of accuracy, I didn't think it was close. The Ascends were a much more accurate speaker. The Studios and Dyns had a differnt sound, which I could see some people liking. But, I wouldn't call either one accurate.

The Ascends stayed for me. The price of the 5 speaker package did play a big role in that. But, I have no problems telling people that I found the 340SE to be much more accurate than the Studio 40s.

I had a long review thread over at AVS with my comparision. I can't find it right now, maybe someone else can post the link.


As for the amp thing, I do NOT think the Ascends are as hard to drive or require a good amp as say the Dyns or the Studios. Both of those are legendary for liking big amps. I'm sure the Ascends sound better with a better amp, but not like some of the other speakers out there. And, the people I've seen using external amps are using cheap pro amps, not the expensive Adcom. Me personally, I would prefer to have $2000 speakers hooked up to your current receiver than $600 speakers hooked up to a $1000 amp. IMHO, the speakers should always be more expensive than the amp.

Anyone know what David F. drives his Ascends with?

[bikeman]

I know these questions seem subjective (which they are), but I'm kinda hoping to get a feel for what most people really believe to be true. I might order the Ascends to at least try them out, but I'm also hoping to get a better feel by asking these questions before deciding if it's really worth it.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice!

Several of us auditioned the Studio's before buying Ascends. You should be able to find reviews by doing a search. I like the Studio 40's quite a bit but preferred the 340's overall. The money I saved still has me smiling. I haven't yet heard the SE's. If they're an improvement over the classics, then it's no contest.

David

[Jacob C]

I think the Ascend classics have a better midrange (i.e. vocals, guitar, etc) but didnt image quite as well. However, this could be because the Paradigms were in a treated room and the ascensd were not. Over all the decision is not hard for me given the price difference. Even if they were the same price I would still go with the ascends. Now all I need is $$$ for SE's.

[scoobydufus]

Thanks guys for your responses. Your advice and opinions are definitely convincing that perhaps the Ascends really are better for legitimate reasons other than just lower cost. I have been reading comments on various forums here and there, but kinda walked away wondering how much the price difference influenced the overall rating. ---K---, I'll hafta find your thread at AVS. Also, I'm in the Minneapolis area, not Chicago, but I'll find out of the local Paradigm dealer will let me try some out at home. Then order some Ascends at the same time.

As for the amp, it sounds like my Pioneer receiver should hold me over for a while.

[chasw98]

As for the amp thing, I do NOT think the Ascends are as hard to drive or require a good amp as say the Dyns or the Studios. Both of those are legendary for liking big amps. I'm sure the Ascends sound better with a better amp, but not like some of the other speakers out there. And, the people I've seen using external amps are using cheap pro amps, not the expensive Adcom. Me personally, I would prefer to have $2000 speakers hooked up to your current receiver than $600 speakers hooked up to a $1000 amp. IMHO, the speakers should always be more expensive than the amp.

Anyone know what David F. drives his Ascends with?

Hi Ryan, just following you around, like usual.
I am one of the guys that bought "cheap" pro amps after having owned my Ascend 340SE and 170SE system for a month or two. I was using a Denon AVR3300 at 105 per channel and upgraded to approx 450w in front and 250w in the rear. I did not do it too play louder, I still calibrate the amp for 85 db spl at the 0 mark, but I gained headroom for transient response. If I had to gauge the difference in sound between the speaker and amp upgrades, I would give the speaker upgrade 90% increase and amp 10% increase. Get a pair of 340's to try, and if you don't like, send em back. Won't cost much for a 30 day trial, but be careful, instead of sending them back, you might be ordering more of them!

Chuck

[---k---]

Just a tip about Paradigm dealers, if you go to the Paradigm website, it will only give you the closest dealer to the zip code you enter. If that dealer won't give you an in-home trial, like the one 2 miles from me, walk away and do some digging untill you find another dealer. I'm willing to bet there are at least 3 in Minnapolis. It is worth it to find a dealer that will take care of you. After all, that is what you are paying the large premium for - for the dealers care and service. If he isn't going to cater to your needs, you definitely should be buying from an internet brand!

I'm only willing to talk about Paradigm so openly here on the Ascend forum, because I know once you get them side-by-side, you will be keeping the Ascends!

[SteveCallas]

When I went out looking for speakers, both the Studio 40s and Ascend 340s were within my allocated budget, so I was going strictly on performance. 340s were definitely better - the studios just have a boxy, muddied sound in comparison. I found some other speakers I preferred even better, but in regards to 340s vs studio 40s, it's not much of a contest in my opinion. You need to audition them both to be sure though, my ears aren't yours.